Stumps

I've been talking to a few friends about this who think that a crossflow is a stupid idea, their logic is if i'm going to the trouble of importing a car I might as well go the whole hog and fit a barra/orion or a ls1, and I get that but when I look at the idea, the simple fact that a crossy is almost a bolt in fit compared to the changes required to fit the later engines makes the crossflow conversion appealing...the simple ease of the whole thing and then just bolt in some US aftermarket goodies for the suspension etc and wham...a different kind of street car for our local roads...

I've been reading a lot of yank mustang forums lately and it's got me interested in the little fox mustangs from 1980-1982, the interesting part I have found is that these cars were available with a 3.3 litre inline six that is very close to our old pre crossflow sixes found in Falcons and Cortina's upto 1976.
Surely one of these cars would be an awesome and different candidate for a crossflow conversion, given that the yanks do similar conversions on older mustangs.
My understanding is the cars in question had a 3.3 litre with 66kw's and a C3 3 speed auto in them so a tranny change would be required as the aussie sixes had a different bolt pattern and starter location, but the rest should be fairly easy to achieve and given the low prices of the mustangs ($3K-$5k US) could be done on a reasonable budget.
My thoughts are given that the V8's made a piss poor 120-140hp, that even a stock alloy head crossflow would match this so a worked crossy would be pretty wicked and considerably lighter than the US running gear.
Any thoughts?
 

ol,m8 at aussiespeed said they can make a 4 bolt supercharger pulley for xf style balancer,as long as its std diamentions.

Cutting your dick off with a chainsaw is different, doesn't mean you should do it.

i am gunna go blower or turbo both seem about $8000 to sought,but i guess if you know heaps about turbos you could do it cheaper.

The Engine Masters episode pretty much put that argument to bed. Looks aside, running similar boost between rootes type and centrifugal and the latter won out by 60hp or so purely by less parasitic loss. You can easily intercool too unlike on a GM blower. Only advantage of the rootes is it comes on strong down low whereas the centrifugal builds with speed.

I remember my brother's VX Berlina with the factory blower. Great midrange but a little underwhelming up top, no quicker really than an AU XR6.

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OP Dex was referring to a roots type kit blower, with carbs & chrome and blower whine being favoured over outright hp or hp per dollar. Cool factor is the priority. 
Procharger, Vortech etc are all centrifugal blowers which are not only different in their characteristics by the way they deliver boost to positive displacement blowers (like roots or Whipple type). They also look totally different, they're basically a turbo with a gearbox and belt pulley on the back. They don't possess the "cool factor" of a the positive displacement blower in the same way that turbos don't  (if you regard that look as cool). 
I can see how a centrifugal blower would be appealing especially in kit form, their bolt on nature and linear power delivery making good gains in peak & midrange hp and easy to tune. They can make some huge hp numbers with big cube v8s especially, but still aren't as efficient as turbos, can have belt slip and aren't exactly cheap. 
 

And about 40 posts and 10 days and no contribution from you in your own thread? The superchargers got a good run and some good examples have been shown.
I agree with Sly on the blow thru centrifugal setup if top end it the aim. They are smaller (easier to package) and can go blow thru LPG easily. Cost is still high. I was going to use a Rotrex on mine, but ended up turbo (haha).
If you want to go roots or twin screw style, I would look at PRO250s supercharged XF thread (it might have been on the other forum).
I also like this, still not sold on using this type of blower in a blow thru configuration though:
 

People are so predictable lol. 
Why not a blow thru centrifugal like a Vortex or Paxton. Or the better of them a ProCharger. 
My car will not be NAT ASP forever and the benifits of a ProCharger over a aspo or turbo engine in what “I do” with my car is what I’ll do next. 
Make a easy 650hp run bottom 10’s high 9’s xflow powered and still get props and street cred off the people who matter.

Lol, pretty much happens with these threads, turboing is easier to do, cheaper and offers better bang for the buck.
However much of the info is interchangeble as supercharging has similar needs to turbo setups.
If you are dead keen on a supercharger i'd still give mike vine a call as he has done lots of force fed crossflows and can give you some good pointers on the engine itself.
You should be able to google him pretty easily.
Im still keen to see what you come up with.

No cortina's dipstick is further back and iirc the est dizzy has a different shaft size to the earlier block, i recently fitted an early xf dizzy to my cortina with an msd 6al, works a treat compared to the old points piece of crap.

Sump design is reversed - drops down at the back rather than front. Pickup is different to suit.

Most blocks have two casts for dipstick, one drilled for Falcons if used in Falcon, other used for Cortina.

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Mv does well and im a fan. I have had 2 turbo falcons and both reliable drivers both stock cams and engines bar a decompression plate.

Stage 2 kit in 1993 and the set up I have now in 2016. Can do a flat 13 second pass and barely go over 4000rpm.
I like them but you are right he is getting on in years.

Back in 1993 it cost $5500 so not cheap bank then.

Latest way more than that. Parts $7500 alone



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The gain with a charger will be in low and mid range torque.  Of course if you turn it harder the hp gain will be higher. The kit is expensive yes and if your handy you could make something cheaper, but if you charged yourself an hourly rate you'd be very close to the price of the kit.  
If you have the coin, want to be different and love the sound of a traditional blower I reckon go for it.  
I was going with the m90 blower on my shop ute but I've been that flat with work I haven't even looked at it for 2 years now. Lol. 

Here's a part Mike Vine, part Graham Ritter set up I'm playing with at the moment.
dont care what it goes like, it just looks cool.
 

Ok, no spec card with it, maybe he doesn't want anyone stealing his secrets.
but stamped on the end is .
503B, 422B, 113.
 

I've spoken to Mike Vine a few times about his crossflow turbo setups, his opinion was to keep the cam fairly close to stock but grind it to suit a turbo. 
His focus was always drivability over bulk power as he wanted the cars with his kits to behave like they came from the factory, and he prefered stock diff gears 2.92 and 2.77 because of the crossflows good low down torque.
It's a shame his kits are so expensive for the power output, $4600 for the stage 1 drawthrough carb kit, 280hp (he's still doing them but i dont think he'll be alive for much longer he's pretty old now) they would make a great starting point for a custom setup as the manifolds are nicely done and his stage 1 kits are pretty much bolt on, tune and go kits.
The DJR Grand Prix Falcons used a developed version of his Stage 2 carb kits if i recall correctly.
The other downside to his kits is the fact that the supplied turbo is an old TO4B or TO4E depending on the kit, hardly what i would call state of the art these days.

Good luck with the build. Sound like some work ahead.
 
FYI Having owed an old mike vine stage two xe, I know he had three stages to choose from. I got a stage 2 which was the below above the stage 1
twin strongberg carbies,
extra heavy duty clutch
and 1.1 bar boost so about 16psi.
 
No meth but same water injection system as stage 1.
Yes it had a green light that light up when water injection was running. Had a 5 litre water tank that you had to check and top up if you were on it too much.
 
Pretty hard to remember what rwkw but at was around the 190rwkw. Brutal turbo lag but fun as hell.
 
 
 
 
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Things I know about boost:
 
A magical snail whistles and makes your car go faster.

Blu XE hit it straight up. That's really great advice and I wish I had that years ago when mine was painted.
 
My paint looked super mint out of the shop, after a year sitting in a dry shed and not having any nature elements attacking it, I found a few blemishes coming out here and there. They have stopped but I was so farked off it wasn't funny.

Its not so bad. Practice on some scrap. Do LOTS of reading. I'd help but it's a long drive.

Good post - pretty much answered the question and narrowed my options down as well. Never had a reason to get something like this done before, and couldn't really get a straight answer from anywhere else, so thanks for that.
 
Still, it has to be done, body can't stay how it is. But definitely not on that budget. Already been thinking about alternatives.
 
Would be pretty retarded to get a paintjob worth three times as much as the car (probably more), only for some stupid asshat to run his shopping trolley across it a week later in the carpark at the local Woolies don't you think?
 
Personally I think most stuff involving cars in general is bullshit expensive.
 
E.g. Cost a mate of mine 4-500 (can't remember exactly) to get an alternator changed in his Barina. He knows SFA about cars. 200 for the new alternator and another 200 or whatever for a couple of hours labour. I get that the guy has to make a living too, that's fair enough, Not the mobile mechanic's fault. But when it all adds up it's still criminally expensive, no matter who's fault it is.
 
When you add up number of hours you'd spend working to pay some muppet to do it for you, vs hours just learning to do it yourself, 9 times out of 10 you're still better doing it yourself. x10 if it's something you're gonna have to do more than once in a few years.
 
Can already hear the disparaging remarks from here, but hey, when trolley meets car a couple of times. at least it won't end in tears because I'm not 15k in the hole and it wasn't immaculate to begin with. Like Stumps said, gotta learn sometime.

Oh how I love reading these threads. Where to start? $5000 paintjobs are long gone and if you find someone that will do one at that price I guarantee that you will be unhappy with the result. If your not when you pick it up you will be when it all starts playing up in 6 months time cause ol mate cut corners and used shit products to try and make a buck out of his tight ass quote. I know your saying that its only going to be a daily but IMO your prep and products need to be of a decent quality and even more meticulous  for this reason. Its being exposed to the elements day in day out. Shit prep and product will f**k out in super quick time when exposed to the elements as opposed to a show car that barely sees the light of day humidity and moisture. Paint and panel rates are pretty cheap really compared to lots of the other trades. Some might argue that 15000 dollars is expensive but even at a conservative $50 dollars an hour its still only 300 hrs work. 7.5 weeks with a 40hr week .Charge it out at $80 and that's only 190ish hrs and that comes in at 4.5 working weeks. Having a car blasted and primed PROPERLY, not by a monkey who will f**k your panels and cause even more damage will cost at least $1800 at a minimum. The shop has overheads and staff to pay out of this too. So really I cant see how a panel shop is any more of a rort than any other business trying to survive. Fuck me I got charged 15000 to have a 7m X 5 M patio extension done and the builder was done in 5 days.
 
I've found that on a good clean rust free car that comes in stripped of everything and sand blasted with no to very minimal rust repairs and not banged up everywhere you need at least 350 - 400 hours to get a job that is done to an exceptional standard. READ covered by a paint lifetime warranty. Gaps that are nice with panels that fit properly and probably better than factory. Painted in and out and the undercarriage finished in a nice durable epoxy texture coat. These cars are the standard we stick to at work. We haven't had any customers that have been unhappy with the end result or the price they paid at the end of the job and many have paid ALOT more than 15000 to have paint and panel only done. That isn't put back together either. That's a rolling shell with hanging panels back on and gapped. I've got a mate who had his mustang painted by us and the paint on its 7+ years old and still looks as good as the day it rolled out of our shop. Its not what we call a show car but has won awards at the local shows it been entered in,  as has any of our other quality jobs. Painting isn't hard but the man hours leading up to the shiny stuff going on is where your dollars will go. Fact of the matter is its a labour intensive trade nothing more nothing less. The only way to reduce costs is in the labour. Which means corner cutting.
 
You have to be upfront and realistic with whoever you get to do your car and everyone needs to be on the same page before a hammer and dolly go anywhere near the car. Give them a realistic budget of what your prepared to spend straight up and they will tell you if they can do anything for that price and what standard of work they will deliver at that price! Have a weekly payment plan in place. Your panel shop will love it and you will too. Call in weekly to see where the hours are going and pay as they go. If your short one week they don't work on it simple as that. If it goes to shit and they fuck you over then you've only paid so much and you can pull the car at a moments notice  cause its all paid up and its not to late that you need to redo everything again. We keep in regular contact and encourage the owner to come in when ever they like to see how its travelling. Also remember a good smash shop doesn't always make for a good resto shop. If they don't do regular resto work and aren't keen on doing it walk away.
If they can't show  you any examples of their work or put you in contact with some of their happy customers to back their claims then they aren't worth dealing with. Again walk away.
 
Not digging at anyone but just trying to explain there is much more to a good paint job than meets the eye.

Take it to the dealer that organised it or if you organised it take it back tomorrow and say your not happy. Give them the chance to make good a decent repair.
 
I rejected a repair on my Suzi Swift 3 times till the got it almost right. Consequently i cant use the local crash repairer anymore!