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Supercharger

57 posts in this topic

First up ,, i have read the supercharger v's turbo thread ,, and dont want to get into that debate . 

But has someone on here used/using this setup ,,

http://www.aussiespeedshop.com/product/ford-250-crossflow-alloy-head-supercharger-kit

http://www.aussiespeedshop.com/product/rebuilt-142-weiand-satin-finish-supercharger

 

if so ,, what else is needed on a stock motor to use it ,

ie , 

head work  ,,, valve springs , roller rockers ,,

decomp plate or pistons 

cam ,, solid lifters or hydrolic 

ignition system 

fuel system 

carb ,,, vac secondarys or mech and what size ,,? 450 ,,?

http://www.aussiespeedshop.com/product/quick-fuel-450-polished-vacuum-secondry-4-barrel-carb

decent extractors , exhaust ,, 

also ,. What would need doing to swap back from an efi car/ motor , to run carb instead ,? 

 

" just full of questions huh ,? "

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Thats Alot of coin for a supercharger Kit :o keen to see what you do here :D

have you thought of a centrifugal type ? or you want the roots style blower?

whats your goal here? power output?

CHESTNUTXE likes this

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i have been wanting to purchase that for about a year now,but cant bring myself to paying 8k to set it up for a measly 100hp gain,i figure just hook a nitrous system up to it for under a grand and use the button if needed,but there is no wow factor of that blower noise or out the bonnet look,plus the bottom pulley is a 3 bolt pulley,but aussiespeed can make a 4 bolt if you have xf crossy,im more interested in the blower shop set up for the crossy it will give much more boost and looks nicer,the thing is you can buy a weiand 289/302 kit for 4k and build a stout 347 @ 400 odd hp easily ,or turbo crossy ,but umm errr a lot of money for a blower kit imo.

XPT likes this

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The gain with a charger will be in low and mid range torque.  Of course if you turn it harder the hp gain will be higher. The kit is expensive yes and if your handy you could make something cheaper, but if you charged yourself an hourly rate you'd be very close to the price of the kit.  

If you have the coin, want to be different and love the sound of a traditional blower I reckon go for it.  

I was going with the m90 blower on my shop ute but I've been that flat with work I haven't even looked at it for 2 years now. Lol. 

CHESTNUTXE, Stumps and bear351c like this

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2 hours ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

......the thing is you can buy a weiand 289/302 kit for 4k and build a stout 347 @ 400 odd hp easily .

 

Yep, do this... :lol:

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Agree. You really have to want to do a crossflow these days. The truth is they are an expensive engine to do when compared to any modern stuff. It's the price you pay to be different from the sheep.  If your willing to pay the price and build a good one, you won't be disappointed. 

There is something very special about kicking modern cars arses in an old xd, cart spring and crossflow powered race car. For that feeling alone I'm happy to keep playing with them. 

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In 12 months i will buy the blower shop package and have it out the bonnet im already in deep coin to my engine so fk it lets blow more on it at least im getting what i want and be different

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Im keen to see how this turns out, i've always had a love of shiny big gm style blowers hanging out of the bonnet and always wanted to do a crossy to be different and i have an unhealthy love for them.

Definatly gives me ideas for my TE Cortina, if i can make it fit in the engine bay.

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Google M90 on a XFLOW xfalcon

On my supercharged 1FZ-FE the blower is mounted on the exhaust side. Allows you to intercool (if you go EFI) and use the standard inlet manifold. Heaps of pictures on the net of similar setups.

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isn't the M90 a little on the small side for 4L ? I thought the M112 would be a better choice but M90's are cheap and plenty which is probably why I just answered my own question, they're a little on the small side but good availability and much cheapness 

matt_lamb_160 and XPT like this

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If I was hell bent on a blower, I'd keep it injected and get a good second hand or reco Eaton M112 from the States off the SVT Mustang or F150 Lightning for around 1k. If you're handy with fabrication, you could make up the bracketry/manifold adaptor yourself. I'm a fitter & machinist so all this stuff wouldn't be a problem for someone like myself. But even if you aren't in a similar trade you could probably get it made a up at a reasonable price.

 

If it's chrome and carbs that you're craving, it won't do the trick and the blower kit would be the go. It's expensive HP in anyone's language. If going blown I'd go a forged bottom end for sure due to the power delivery and risk of backfires/pinging when things like heat soak and lack of intercooler during extended thrashing. 

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hey while on the subject what cam would be the go with one of these kit's ,ive read somewhere a smaller style cam is needed with a blower as off line power and tourqe is laid down ? or a turbo grind ,any idea's guys or lobe centre i think i read 114 lobe or something or bigger exhaust side ?

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5 hours ago, matt_lamb_160 said:

Google M90 on a XFLOW xfalcon

On my supercharged 1FZ-FE the blower is mounted on the exhaust side. Allows you to intercool (if you go EFI) and use the standard inlet manifold. Heaps of pictures on the net of similar setups.

The M90 on a XFLOW thread is mine, and I have since changed the M90 to a M112 from a Jaguar V8.

The basic set up is the same as the M90, except for the pulleys I changed them a bit, from HTD to 8 rib serpentine style.

I also went from the Bronco throttle body to a single 80mm.

It now has 14 to 15 psi, and goes a lot better than the M90 did.

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2 hours ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

hey while on the subject what cam would be the go with one of these kit's ,ive read somewhere a smaller style cam is needed with a blower as off line power and tourqe is laid down ? or a turbo grind ,any idea's guys or lobe centre i think i read 114 lobe or something or bigger exhaust side ?

Back when mine was still M90 I blew a couple of pistons similar to what another guy did on here recently with his turbo xflow.

The motor that blew had 28cc Precision Hyperectic pistons, crow cam, roller rockers, main and head studs, hardened push rods, ported E1 head, decked block, shot peened rods and whatever else I have forgotten about, it now sits in the corner of my shed waiting for me to do something with it.

It blew just before Powercruise 2012, so I put a 100% stock low Km EFI E2 head motor in and bolted the M90 supercharger and bits to it, and bugger me it went better than the one that blew, that is why the stuffed one is still sitting in the corner.

I have since changed to the M112 and the stock motor is still going fine, it had me worried on New Years Day when it did not want to run, it turns out 2 MSD leads were stuffed, it was fine the day before.

A few years back I contacted Camtech about a custom cam for when I rebuild the stuffed motor, and I seem to recall the cam had a 114 lobe centre.

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I just did a bit of surfing on blower cams and most have 114 or larger exhaust  lift and duration i think to get rid of all of that build up for the next lot to come in

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9 hours ago, xd4.1efisc said:

Back when mine was still M90 I blew a couple of pistons similar to what another guy did on here recently with his turbo xflow.

The motor that blew had 28cc Precision Hyperectic pistons, crow cam, roller rockers, main and head studs, hardened push rods, ported E1 head, decked block, shot peened rods and whatever else I have forgotten about, it now sits in the corner of my shed waiting for me to do something with it.

It blew just before Powercruise 2012, so I put a 100% stock low Km EFI E2 head motor in and bolted the M90 supercharger and bits to it, and bugger me it went better than the one that blew, that is why the stuffed one is still sitting in the corner.

I have since changed to the M112 and the stock motor is still going fine, it had me worried on New Years Day when it did not want to run, it turns out 2 MSD leads were stuffed, it was fine the day before.

A few years back I contacted Camtech about a custom cam for when I rebuild the stuffed motor, and I seem to recall the cam had a 114 lobe centre.

Any idea on the camshaft in the stuffed motor. From my understanding for a turbo u want as little overlap at possible as while both valves are open backpressure in the exhaust before the turbo can be higher then the boost pressure and push the charge back into the intake. On a blower there is little to no restrictions in the exhaust so more exhaust duration and overlap helps the blower push everything out.

In saying that my new slapper xflow turbo motor has a diffdrent cam with more exhaust duration and lift and it seems pretty happy. Im only running half the boost atm but feels good. This motor is pretty flogged too.

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5 hours ago, LJDB said:

Any idea on the camshaft in the stuffed motor. From my understanding for a turbo u want as little overlap at possible as while both valves are open backpressure in the exhaust before the turbo can be higher then the boost pressure and push the charge back into the intake. On a blower there is little to no restrictions in the exhaust so more exhaust duration and overlap helps the blower push everything out.

In saying that my new slapper xflow turbo motor has a diffdrent cam with more exhaust duration and lift and it seems pretty happy. Im only running half the boost atm but feels good. This motor is pretty flogged too.

It is a Crow 14771.

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for the money it costs for a blower setup you can install a mild AU turbo or BA turbo motor and make more power, better fuel economy and reliability, yes the torque won't be that instant but it's cheaper to buy and install a 460ci big block in an E series than a blower! you can pickup decent running 460ci's from many places for way under 5k, add exhaust and mounts and you can get the whole thing done for under 7k and have one of the most reliable, unstressed ford V8's ever made, the 460BB just purrs along with gobs of torque, add heads and cam and it's a different story but before I'd waste money in supercharging a crossflow I'd put in 460BB then down the road you can stroke it to 520ci and not tell anyone about it, hell tell everyone it's a 427ci

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Why doesn't anyone want to build a rear mount turbo flow?  It would be so different from all the sheep out there. It would make good power and torque for fek all and if you had a ute it would make it so easy. Oil reservoir in the space beside the tank in the tray. Diff pump pushing the oil around the turbo.  

Modern TBI Holley style injection on a four barrel manifold.  It would be reliable, relatively cheap, easy to tune and a real sleeper. I actually spoke with bloke from Dalby about this idea this arvo.  Cause he was talking supercharger, but wanted sleeper. Those two things don't go together. But rear mount turbo, no intercooler needed. TBI on a four barrel would be well below the bonnet and would keep,the stealth look. 

Yeah barra turbo would be easier and potentially cheaper, but to be honest it's been done to death in my opinion. Why be another sheep in the flock.....

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12 hours ago, ando76 said:

Why doesn't anyone want to build a rear mount turbo flow?  It would be so different from all the sheep out there. It would make good power and torque for fek all and if you had a ute it would make it so easy. Oil reservoir in the space beside the tank in the tray. Diff pump pushing the oil around the turbo.  

Modern TBI Holley style injection on a four barrel manifold.  It would be reliable, relatively cheap, easy to tune and a real sleeper. I actually spoke with bloke from Dalby about this idea this arvo.  Cause he was talking supercharger, but wanted sleeper. Those two things don't go together. But rear mount turbo, no intercooler needed. TBI on a four barrel would be well below the bonnet and would keep,the stealth look. 

Yeah barra turbo would be easier and potentially cheaper, but to be honest it's been done to death in my opinion. Why be another sheep in the flock.....

The rear mount turbo is an interesting concept for sure. It's got a few advantages, like keeping heat out of the engine bay and less components to jam under the bonnet, keeping it close to stock looking etc.

There would be lost heat therefore velocity from the exhaust gasses from the long journey rearward so you could go a size down in your turbine housing to compensate. I guess you would solid mount the turbo flange to the chassis with a flex joint on the feed side.

It could run a sump under the turbo oil return and an electric oil pump to the feed in a closed loop oil system. It would give the turbo a nice uncontaminated oil supply not sharing with the engine, but adds complexity.

You would have some lag as the long charge pipe from rear to front would add a lot of volume to be filled before making boost.

As for the not needing an intercooler, I don't know whether the sheer length of the charge pipe and the exposure to cool air under the car would be enough to cool adequately. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yep xpt your on it. With the ute you could place the turbo further upstream than a sedan. 

It is true that the length of the charge pipe would not be as efficient as an intercooler but those that have the rear mount set up report good intake air temps. 

Lag I think could be managed as you have suggested and I think with the already good torque of the 250 you could live with any that was experienced. It's not like a 2litre rear mount. 

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