XF001

Turbo xf falcon.

100 posts in this topic

I'm in need of some information on my 4.1 EFI turbo xf falcon. Bought it from a guy in Melbourne who bought off the guy that built it.

 

eca0ee0f07813d9e388ca58790dd43f3.jpg

 

To cut a long story short, the chick that owned it leaned out a piston. Compression test shows cylinder 3 is down to 30psi while the rest are sitting at 130psi.

I have inspected the suspect cylinder with an inspection camera and the piston seems to be alright but has some minor scoring of the bore. The honing marks a still clearly visible in all the bores and motor has only done 17000km since it was built.

I suspect that the valves in cylinder 3 are fucked and the head needs to be rebuilt.

My question is - should I pull the motor down and put new rings and bearings in it and get it rehoned to remove the scoring in cylinder 3 as well or just get the head rebuilt and put it back together?

 

I know nothing about forced induction so please be gentle with me.

 

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A forced induction engine is nothing different from a normal engine, as in everything applies the same. A forced induction engine encounters more stresses than an atmo one, so will wear out more quickly. 170,000 on a turbo donk might be like 400,000 on an atmo.

 

Depending on what you mean by scoring of the bore, it could be minor cosmetic damage or enough to need a rebore.

 

You need to do a complete compression test on that cylinder, ie squirt a thick oil in the plug hole and crank it over and check the pressure. The oil temporarily seals the piston/bore so will eliminate that from the problem. If you still have low comp on that pot, then it's valves. If it comes good, it's rings/piston/bore. By the sounds of it, running lean on that pot might have caused it to detonate and smash a ring land or even break a ring.

 

Only way to tell is to whip the head off.

wagoon likes this

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The female owner destroyed the turbo as well. It had to be rebuilt after about 10,000km.

Would engine oil be thick enough?

 

It also has a methanol and dry ice system under the bonnet. Would this have been needes for road use?

 

 

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Dry ice is drag-only. Methanol would have been in lieu of an intercooler (normally a water/meth mix 70/30). If it ran out of methanol, it could have detonated but blowing the turbo? That takes talent!

 

Yeah thick engine oil like a 20w/60, or use 15w40 with some Vaseline mixed into a gooey paste. Do NOT use gear oil.

XF001 likes this

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I'd be pulling it down and checking it over. Perhaps broken ring land on cyl 3 ? What caused the turbo to fail? Oil seal failure? Oil starvation? Damage to compressor or turbine wheels? Be sure that you're running an restrictor on the turbo oil feed if recommend by the manufacturer and that your drain/return is within 15deg of vertical and adequate size and also unobstructed.

After doing all that I'd throw it on the dyno and see what is happening with the afrs. What engine management is it running? Looks to me like it's all factory efi stuff. Is the meth injection switched with a Hobbs switch? If I was mine I'd run and air to air or water to air intercooler. I think that would give consistent intake temps without the hassle of filling the methanol tank. Also those factory efi intakes don't give even distribution, with the meth injection acting as a fuel source it will affect the afrs. If overall afrs are good on the dyno you still may have lean/overly advanced conditions in one or more cylinders because the cooling/enrichment isn't equally shared.

 

This is just my opinion of course and others may have different ideas.

 

Edit: With dry ice intercoolers, they still require a heat exchanger. Usually a container or jacket around the core with a lid to fill with ice. Yours just looks like a straight charge pipe from turbo to throttle body.

Outback Jack and gerg like this

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My last engine did the same thing "turbo did not let go but" and was down to 60 on 1 bank, funny it was number 3 as well, it was a broken compression rings and the skirt off the piston and is a common thing with a engine that was not tuned right or boost spiking as mine was, mine went past 25psi a few times and that's caused my broken piston/rings, mine had no real signs of damage till I pushed it out of the bore it had a fair amount of damage to the piston and rings on that cylinder I could have fitted a new piston and rings to it but removed it for another engine as mine was the cars matching number engine and I did not want to risk damaging that engine over another one

It does not have a bent exhaust valve? or blown the head gasket out? althow if it did the headgasket it would chug like a train even more so then a broken piston or would make a fair noise while the engine is running  

How much boost does it run? a non intercooled engine should not be over 8 psi a bit more can be had with the meth injection but id still not go past 12 at the most, and may be the issue its been boosted with no meth in it and that's caused the damage

If you in need of pistons and it still has cast 29cc ACL ones PM me I have a few new sets and a a fair few 2nd hand ones that I kept as there like new still in most sizes just in case you only need to only change 1 piston 
 

Outback Jack, XPT and XF001 like this

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It has an insulated container for the ice and a plastic container for the methanol.

 

caeb9c91a35d7fe65c80669279021a5f.jpg

 

It was apparently running at 9psi when she ran it out of fuel and leaned it out. It was dynoed at 215kw at 14psi when it was first built.

 

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14 psi with no intercooler means a disaster in waiting.... Only question is how big the mess will be. Just ask anyone who boosted up a stock VL turbs without a cooler.

 

Looks like they went to a lot of trouble to construct a second-rate system of cooling the charge. If you're going to have all that plumbing, a water-to-air setup would have been much more effective and reliable.

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It has an insulated container for the ice and a plastic container for the methanol.caeb9c91a35d7fe65c80669279021a5f.jpgIt was apparently running at 9psi when she ran it out of fuel and leaned it out. It was dynoed at 215kw at 14psi when it was first built.Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

So it recirculates the methanol through the line in the bucket? Not sure how effective that would be. With ice intercoolers you can have the ice in direct contact with the intercooler core with dry ice, or use a water to air intercooler with the cooling water recirculating through a water/ice container to cool the water coming into contact with the intercooler. Both still involve a heat exchanger.

These are strictly race only and not practical for the street.

Outback Jack likes this

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I spoke to Herrod Motorsports about the car and they didn't put the methanol system in the car so obviously added after the car left their workshop.

The car was well known in Melbourne and had the number plate "MSPSI"

 

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Looks like plenty of money has been spent on the outside of the engine, but sounds like they were short cutting the inside of the engine. Depending on how far/much power you want from the car is how far you "need" to go. But since the head needs to come off anyway as either it's a valve or rings by all accounts you might as well flip the engine and pull a bearing for inspection. If you have limited info on what actually happened/what caused the issue/what the actual symptoms were your best to have a poke around and inspect what's there then make you decisions on what to do based on what you find.

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Engine out and start again.  If it has done a ring or ring land, then all that metal has to go somewhere.  Straight into the oil pump where it turns it into a concrete mixer and fecks the pump.

 

If it were me I would be doing a full pull down and inspect.  You need to know for sure what is going in there.  At least that way you can start again with a fresh motor.

 

They are a relatively simple motor to pull down and put back together for someone with a decent amount of experience.

 

I'm with all the others on the 'cooling' system and those stock manifolds being ordinary for distribution.  Plenty of people on here willing to help you out if you get stuck.

Outback Jack, XF001 and ricktewagon like this

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All the stick on shit is being removed matt_lamb_160 including all the shit lights inside the car. Half the dash will have to be replaced and painted to get it up to scratch.

The guy who built it went batshit with body moulding and turbo badges all over it. Most of that is gone now.

The wiring is an abomination

b21ad8b06f83e6d90f577fe83b797d77.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Outback Jack likes this

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Thanks ando. By the look of things, I'm going to need a fair bit of help.

 

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I'll be down that way in February if you need a hand.  I can recommend a good machine shop down your way that wont rip your arms and legs off.  I'm in Cairns and I build these things for a living and I send all my machining down to them in Brisbane.  They are just brilliant.  They have machined a few tough x-flows for members on this forum.

Outback Jack and XF001 like this

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All the stick on shit is being removed matt_lamb_160 including all the shit lights inside the car. Half the dash will have to be replaced and painted to get it up to scratch.

The guy who built it went batshit with body moulding and turbo badges all over it. Most of that is gone now.

The wiring is an abomination

b21ad8b06f83e6d90f577fe83b797d77.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Shit that makes my crappy wiring jobs look professional.

Outback Jack, wagoon and XF001 like this

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FYI you could run E85 and water injection in leiu of an air to air if you were clued up enough. I know of a guy that has done 3 LS1 single turbo setups that have used that system to make 600hp. But he always had packaging issues and thats why he did it.

Anyway, back on topic. I'd be starting that wiring from scratch, talk about a fire hazard

XF001 likes this

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I know nothing about forced induction TUFE. By the the time I am finished I hope to know enough to get by.

 

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XPT likes this

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Some things I know about boost;

 

Boost gets the bitches,

Some is good - more is better,

Despite the above you need to show restraint or bad things happen,

It creates lotsa heat - so make your exhaust seat fat

If it's a streeter - don't tell the cam grinder its for a turbo, just buy a towing cam (straight from Ray Hall that one)

Cooler air going in makes for better/ safer boost levels,

Blow thru turbo is cool- but a pain in the butt to tune for street,

If its an auto - get a full manual body, lack of vacuum causes issues with the auto,

If your using an auto with a turbo you are a girl - piss it off and put in a manual (Ray Hall again - he seriously hates auto turbo??)

The more boost you add, the less timing you need,

Long stroke motors like the crossy love boost and lastly,

 

It creates some good arguments on forums........

wagoon, XPT, Gravelrash and 2 others like this

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Righto guys. Here is what I know about the motor.

- Forged pistons

- ported and polished E2 cylinder head decked to provide 8.25 to 1 compression

- custom grind cam and hydraulic lifters

- hi-flow T04 turbo

- AIT exhaust manifold

- turbosmart 45mm wastegate

- 3" mandrel bent exhaust

- 5 speed gear box with heavy duty clutch

- 3.08 LSD with 28 spline axles

 

It did have a hi-low boost switch in the cabin but no idea where it is now.

First dyno came back at 215kw at rear wheels on 14lbs of boost.

 

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