crossflow porting results

[slydog 7,873]

2 hours ago, Grimmy said:

Knowing how fast your ute went with the before head gives me hope that maybe I can go fast with my little head lol 230cfm@.600

i can only dream of flow in the 250's . That's awesome ! 

230 isn't enough imo. Need to get as much inlet in there as possible. Exhaust takes care of its self. 

To explain this a Barra head stock out flows ported xflow heads and LS engines have shit heads that outflow some good heads and the 6ltr heads flow 300cfm on stock engines. Yet both drive and work fine on stock engines. So having as much cyl head as possible is paramount.

My car is heavy (1497kg with driver street trim) but even with the car gutted (tail gate off,no exhaust,drivers seat only,no left head light or blinker,no tins in the tray,10ltrs of fuel) it only went 12.0 most passes. This time dropped pipes so I could hear it but otherwise as street driven. Yes I drove it tuned on VP but that was a main and idle jet change 1 step up on both.

All down to inlet flow. Once its tuned and raced with petrol jetting and 98 and it goes mid 11 Ill pull weight out of it. Then reset the convertor to where it was (5500) and it will drop more ET again.But can't do it without CFM flow,hence the chase for more.

Drag racing isn't a easy game but the basics will always be the same.

 

[ando76 4,354]

28 minutes ago, CHESTNUTXE said:

im starting to catch on here ,so if you have say 210 @  500 it has potential for a real powerful engine,most of those other figures start to fall over around 600 why is that ando.

Because at the end of the day there is only so much air you can pass thru a given hole size. As Rob has alluded to, the limitations in the hole size comes at the short turn, where it's very easy to hit water. There are ways around it and blokes like myself and Jason Murphy in Toowoomba are currently working on very different x flow port shape and routing. It's expensive, time consuming work but it will be worth it in the end. 

In the mean time Cam and I are working to get as much flow as possible within the standard port layout. I'm off to the bench on Wednesday with another customer head and the test head with yet another port shape. 

Of course there is no substitute for individual runner engines where you can really hook into the port. Also the shape of the manifold on IR engines has a massive effect on cfm to the positive. 

[Grimmy 312]

I'm also very interested in the 11cfm gain in the chamber mods , I thought it was a good shape already ?? And did the manifold improve flow ? 

my intake valve is std size so I can probable pick up a little from increasing that 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Grimmy

[slydog 7,873]

On 7/10/2017 at 8:53 PM, Grimmy said:

I'm also very interested in the 11cfm gain in the chamber mods , I thought it was a good shape already ?? And did the manifold improve flow ? 

my intake valve is std size so I can probable pick up a little from increasing that 

The chamber isn't able to recover from charge opposite the inlet valve is the issue. By putting material back in there Ricky found a 11cfm gain, All the sudden it's a 272cfm cyl head,which is starting to get serious. Plus next time around there will be a gain in port cross sectional area and get more aggressive in the short turn as stated before.

Yes a 1.92 inlet valve will help for sure. You need more CFM cos your staying 4 barrel. If you were ITB or Webers you could be down a little bit but as mine showed the suggested 226cfm (flow testing showed 219 though???) just isn't enough. I had perfect 12.6 AFR's (any higher or lower it lost hp dyno proven) and convertor and gearing. But TBH you still need a whole package not just a strong engine and not enough ignition or or fuel system and stuff. Plus a stick car will not be as fast as a auto on a strip unless it's a liberty or such.

Not saying it's a shit head cos it's not but Wazzy went to the other head for a reason...cos it flowed more. If we all ran around with 2 barrel carbs low cfm numbers would be fine and give what you want but 4 barrels with decent cams and such need more.  

[ando76 4,354]

Pretty happy tonight. Got into the flow bench with the test port a day earlier. All this talk on cfm had me keen. Here are the results. Remember Anthony's bench flows 10cfm below a 'superflow' branded bench. Anthony's own admission. If you doubt me, I'll happily provide his phone number so you can call him.

And all thru a reasonably stock port window. As GT would have said " the smallest port- doing the biggest job". Good news is that there is still way more in the x section.

[Banno 479]

What type of xflow head?
D or a c2 or something else


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lord_fahrquhar 2,580]

Its a C2.

[Banno 479]

Thought it was or maybe a D. I have a c2 that got recently and is completely different. Even though it's stamped c2. It's not a c1 either cause I have one of them as well to add to confusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

is a c2 a leaded xf head ? and c2a unleaded

[Valvebouncer 2,389]

They are great numbers Ando!
You've got to be happy with that!

[ando76 4,354]

41 minutes ago, Valvebouncer said:

They are great numbers Ando!
You've got to be happy with that!

I am to be honest. It's the way it achieves the numbers that makes me happy and also the knowledge that there is way more in it. I spent a good amount of time on the phone to Cam last night and we are going to keep going.  Should have some news in the coming weeks. 

[slydog 7,873]

For those who need to know...I deleted David's usual trolling comment to my post and will continue to do so until he learns to be a productive member of the forums. Trolling anyone will and always has been dealt with the same way.

He can keep posting but if it's personal dig or non productive in any way it will be gone. 

 

 

[Drew442 67]

Can I troll?

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

[slydog 7,873]

Sure go for it...just no Beige talk or your gone LOL

[Drew442 67]

Sure go for it...just no Beige talk or your gone LOL

Light brown?

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

[slydog 7,873]

Lol I dig it

[ando76 4,354]

I'll just leave these here. To say I'm happy tonight is an understatement. To see years of port development result in this leaves me very happy.
Don't forget to add 10cfm to these figures due to Anthony's bench running below a superflow bench. Even without that the numbers are truly impressive and particularly as it's made thru a near stock port window and the lift points it makes peak flow. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the smallest port doing the biggest job.
Is there anymore in the ports? Yes there is. Are Cam and I finished? Hell no!!!!

The biggest flow number was attained thru a slightly larger port opening. It's suffering in the mid lift but I'm confident I know why and we will improve that.

The other port is the original port with a few more tweaks. It's only very slightly over stock port window. It's flowing a real 270cfm at .700" lift.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ando76 4,354]

Forgot to add that these head was flowed without manifold. Just a bellmouth on the end of the port. 

[gerg 10,871]

Those are 4V clevo figures.

Unheard of!

 

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,871]

I'd like to see the figures, with a standard manifold and weber carby on it.

[ando76 4,354]

9 hours ago, gerg said:

Those are 4V clevo figures.

Unheard of!

 

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Yep, except with air speed. Through continuous development and thought we have managed to create a port that flows massive cfm without having a massive hole. Anyone can make a big hole that will flow good numbers BUT it will occur at big lift points and at the sacrifice of air speed. For reference look at all the 4v heads fitted with intake inserts to get some air speed back. 

I'd love to be able to show just how small the port is on the high flowing head, but I can't for fear of others copying it.  Rest assured there is actually more in that port. I spoke with Cam last night about it and he is keen as to go further.  Never stop developing. 

 

[ando76 4,354]

8 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

I'd like to see the figures, with a standard manifold and weber carby on it.

Funny you should ask that Dave. I'm going to head back to the bench and flow the second runner in on the above photo of the prodigal. It has an absolute stock size port window and was created for the speedway guys and guys running four barrels. 

Ill let you know what it flows with the speedway 'visually standard' intake manifold. In the mean time I'll post up below its figures without manifold.  

 

[ando76 4,354]

Just to clarify, the above porting results were from 2 of the 3 runners we have done on the test head. We now have 3 seperate ports and chambers on that head.

Basically absolute stock port window, small increase window and medium increase window.

Below are the figures for the stock port window which I didn't post last night.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Slow250XC 1,513]

Very cool. Noone round here has a flow bench to play with... might have to build a basic one sometime for shits n gigs.

[Outback Jack 6,352]

Drooooooolllllllll.......
Ando this is gonna go for gold isn't it? Hehe
Knew you were onto it the first time you explained msd graphing to me.
Top bloke deserves a top motor. Well done!

Sent from my GT-S7583T using Tapatalk