matt_lamb_160

So no turbos you make baby jesus cry

No doseing for you then

Its not a crow but these are the specs. I couldn't run more than 28 degrees locked with a tfi and street fire msd, or regraphed XE dizzy using 98 with octane booster. The TFI definitely feels better and im spewing I didn't get a programmable 6al. Even now with the lowered comp I can only run 30 locked without booster.

Looks like Ando has it covered. Good stuff.
 
Nath, better close this thread and start a build thread so you can be someone who has done too.

The cam is a Crow Custom grind that was done for a hot streeter.  I looked at the figures and I think it will suit the application and the budget. 
 
You just have to keep in mind that you are building a combination - not just a camshaft.  It all has to work together.  get one piece wrong and it will be a pig for sure. 
 
I really like that old combo of Jason's and I think it is what Nathan wants.  That is the thing - you have to decide exactly what you want your engine to do and then build it with all the right components and within budget.  Not an easy task sometimes.

A 230deg cam is getting towards being a pig and can easily become one (mismatched gearing etc.). I have had more than one person ask for my advice on a better suited cam after fitting one.
 
They don't need to pull it apart to tell you it's not stock, much more than a 214deg cam and it will become obvious. A 4brl and extractors are obvious. Plus they can just decide it is and put it off the road for whatever reason. Not why I called the other one P-plate friendly anyway, 200hp is plenty to kill yourself.
 
Remember it is your first engine build and the bigger you go, the more likely it will fail.
 
The info, is pretty much all there so it is upto you.

What are you saying about these people who say "they would use". Has someone said something misleading? Not sure if I missed something??
 
Sure the people who have done are important to listen to, but lets not be too dismissive.
 
I am still not totally sure what the OP is after.
 
I can see a range of engines from a nice P-plate friendly 208-210deg cam with tricked weber and stock manifold, the old favourite 214-218deg cam with 350-500 Holley to what seems to be the new favourite 230-235deg cam with 465-600 Holley. Seems to be heading towards the later.
 
I think comments from people who have done a range of engines (not all 13sec combos) and what they did would be helpful. Have we done this somewhere already?

You can make 300hp and 450nm on a stock engine theres no need to build one

Go for a run in a boosted crossy before making your mind up. The cost of a built basic 4 barrel engine with a cam rollers ported head would setup a turbo engine. My white thing would keep my ute and its a 5k engine just In parts and 100cubes bigger then a crossy

I was anti boost for a long time to, but its easy power and its something that should be considered that or a,,,, cough,,,, cough LS

I may get flamed for this but ill say it anyway BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTT the fooker

It will pull the 2.77 gears like 3.9s and will put a built sub 5000rpm engine to shame, and if you keep it under 12 psi it will last and make more numbers and double the TQ

im all for a tough crossy I have heaps of them but a boosted stock engine will keep up with most of them and at less cost and if you lunch the engine get another one and go again

I did the NA thing for a long time but I now have a few boosted crossys and they will out pull any NA engine at half the RPM with much longer gearing, my white car pulled harder then my ute and under 4500rpm on a dead stock engine with valve springs. You can make them move NA but you will never have one that drives as good, my white thing off boost its like a stock engine and good on fuel, well gas

Just a option to think about and if you willing to put 3 4k into a engine bay its something to consider

 

Went into the vault for you, 2.03 60's for both carbs mate!! the 500 was a good carb but the 600 vac had way more top end, 3mph is a lot with a carb change. 215/60 nankings 1280kg car
 
 
Jezz 2.03 60'!!! now I do 1.66 and I'm not happy!!!!

Great rods and okay pistons but well and truly not needed in this build in my opinion.  I have that exact combo for my roller cam crossy (which I must get together one day).  only difference is my Ross pistons are second hand.  Ross pistons hate punishment and the tune has to be absolutely spot on or they will die.
 
I reckon I could build this whole engine for less than the ask for those Rods and pistons and at the end of the day it will make the same power. 
 
Forged rods and pistons are really the domain of consistent, high piston speed applications like Drag racing , burnouts and speedway and are a complete overkill for a street motor.  Some seriously fast times have been run on standard rods and acl cast piston. 

If I can buy into to this argument of EST v's electronic Id suggest the EST smashes the electronic in every way. If you plan on some performance mods leave the EST in place and fit a 3.3 manual control module.It uses a DC square wave signal that out performs the electronic magnet and reluctor wheel set up easily. By keeping the temp sensor cooler the EST will keep in more timing as well. There's ways to do it but if you really want the electronic go for that then.    

Perhaps I have commented on this before (I see my name), but if it is only ever going to see 5,000rpm I would go with the smaller 218deg Camtech cam with a 500 Holley or small 4brl either on a secondhand redline manifold, reco'ed and balanced standard bottom end and that's about it.
 
Or forget about going big (it seems your goals are not set that high) and build an engine with the manifold and carb you have, a 208deg camtech and a std reco'ed 250 bottom end (maybe slightly higher comp ~9-9.5:1) and have a nice car to drive. Will love the highway with 2.77 gears and no over-drive and will work well with as low as 3.27 gears. No race winner, but a nice engine

A 4brl manifold (redline is good enough and I am not convinced any worse than an Aussiespeed, both have different good points) with a ~500cfm carb (465 Holley, 525 Demon or similar).
 
You can use what you have, but it will cost HP.
 
If you use the 218deg cam, I'd try what you have already, but only because you have it.

I played with one a little while ago on a very basic engine I got 163hp and it was running out of fuel im sure a few tweaks would have seen more but that was it for it in stock form

I went to a 465 holley and then seen 174 hp as it was out of the box ron fiddled it on the rollers ad got it to 184 was such a fun little car that one still have that engine in the shed

Was actually Matt that came up with that build... Wouldn't mind having a chat to Sean when he comes back about it though.
 
Been following that Mad Scientiest build pretty keenly. Ando that's actually a really good idea. Would you have a link for that?
 
Steve you're right, it would be more practical, but if I was worried about practical I'd just buy a BA XR6 and send the XD to the wreckers. No offense to you or the other guys who do it, those builds will haul arse, but I've always found old cars with modern engines to be a bit un-inspiring. Kind of like fake tits. Yeah they're big and heaps of fun but it's just not the same.
 
That, and EFI is the devil.

http://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=4014

Couldnt you make it out of Aluminium sheet?

BF look to be the same as FG starters just pulled one off the BF engine going into my XC, E series and BA starters loom dimensionally the same in size.

I was under the impression that they are the same from E series right till BA??
 
FG top BA Bottom
 

 
BA in car
 

 
FG in car
 

 
the orientation is the same the FG is just shorter in length by about 30mm from memory.

That's an issue I am unaware of BA is shorter than E-series so what was the issue? Yes, a trip to the wreckers would probably work, but I hope someone would know.

Has anyone got good pictures of an AU vs an FG starter motor? I am chasing more clearnce between the exhaust and the solenoid (on a crossflow). I hear that the solenoid position is rotated on the FG, if you know, what direction is it rotated in?

Did mine today. Looks very good on first inspection

Thanks men.  Could not stop thinking about this demon engine all night.  Got to work this morning and the first thing I did was turn No.1 main cap around the wrong way and wouldn't you know it, perfect fit.
 
So one of two things has happened.  It left the factory like that (possible) or it was line bored later with the cap on back to front.  Not really sure.  I'm thinking that I will assemble this engine with the cap on backwards and if the crank spins freely and the tolerances are good - then to hell with it - I'll use it.
 
If it was a conrod bearing or a customer engine I would definitely not do it - but since it is for me, Bugger it.  It is the mad scientist crossflow after all.

Bench full of goodies
 

 
Tools of the trade. Need torch light these days as the eyes are not as good as they use to be. love my long burrs. Only way to go