clevocortina 1,109 Posted September 2, 2015 Hi guys I'm about to get cranking on my car and I have a question. The engine builder put a melling high volume oil pump in it. I've heard they cause more problems then they solve. Is this true? Car is just running a flat tappet hyd cam. It has a High energy sump. Is it true that they can empty the sump and pump all the oil into the top of the motor? Also they out joe Gibbs oil in it. It's been siting a while and I just want to change it back to regular oil. Apparently it dosnt mix with other oils? So what do I do. What is a myth? And what brand and grade oil are people running out there? Eng is brand new. Run in on dyno and tuned Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,356 Posted September 2, 2015 Some cam companies are against the use of Hi volume pumps. Some say they can strip the gear off the dizzy shaft, 100PSI on cold start-up. Others say they can empty a sump and leave all the oil in the lifter gallery. I've always run a new Mellings STD pump with no drama's. Mind you I don't do much 1/4 mile stuff. Get an oil restrictor kit for reliability. As for engine oil, if it's run in on Synthetic, keep it on Synthetic. If it's Mineral based, put in your favourite blend. Penrite, Pennzoil or whatev's. Just my opinion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,875 Posted September 2, 2015 And...... Cue Ando 2 Mr Polson and wagoon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronny 204 Posted September 2, 2015 You'll be fine with that pump You have a bigger volume sump too which is good When the oil gets hot and thin you'll be glad you got a HV pump You might get a bit of dizzy gear wear but worth it IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wagoon 2,429 Posted September 2, 2015 And...... Cue Ando Isn't that mainly for crossflow stuff he goes on about To the OP as far as I'm aware no ford engine needs a high volume oil pump, or at least the ones we deal with. The standard pumps can be adjusted in the relief spring to provide all that is needed. Yes high volume pumps will pump all the oil to the top off the engine. Regarding the oil can't say I know anything about the Joe Gibbs oil but if your changing oils and the previous oil is a different kind or doesn't like other oils you could use a cheap oil to flush the engine out. For example when I buy a car with a suspect service history I always do a triple oil change. I drop the original oil and replace with a cheap oil and new filter, run the engine up to temp then drain that oil when it's cool enough and change oil filter. Then I put in the same cheap oil but this time I go for a 10-15 minute drive come home and drop oil and filter. Then it's in with the oil of choice and away I go checking the oil every week to see how it's going. I really only do the triple change when I need to, on most cars I skip the first run to temp oil change and go for a short drive first up and see what comes out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,875 Posted September 2, 2015 I have a Melling standard volume on my clevo and even that''s off the Richter on the psi gauge at all times except when fully warmed up and idling. Even then it never drops below half. That's on a slapper rebuild with 50,000 ks up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted September 2, 2015 Ok so cue the oil pump freak!!!!!!!!! Right - I'll say this again for the sake of clarity. Never - ever - ever fucking ever run a high volume pump on a ford engine Clevo - crossflow - or Windsor. Fucking ever. ever fucking ever. Ah now I've got that off my chest. Why - because the standard volume pump is way - way - way to efficient. Are you hearing me. Way way way to efficient. How do I know this? Because I am a freak who gets off on building oil pumps to suit customers needs. I sit them on a test bench and set them up on a regular basis. I only did one this week so far, but last week I did 3. I know how much oil they flow in standard form and I can tell you - its lots. Had a mate/customer with a very tough aspo Clevo burnout car ring this week he cut short a big trip away because his Clevo failed oil filter inspection. It runs - restrictor kits, priority oiling system, very good BIG sump and great machining and tolerances - yet still it ate 3 bearings. All with a STANDARD volume pump. Filled the heads full of oil and also the breather. All at 7200rpm. Why - because the standard volume pump had been fitted with a bigger relief spring allowing it to pump 95psi of oil pressure. Now what you also have to realise is that is a massive increase in FLOW as well as PRESSURE. And your engine builder has fitted a high volume pump to your engine???? Why - I'll bet he usually builds chevs. You have to understand the design of the Ford oil pump to appreciate just how good they are and I don't care if you have a 10.5 litre sump. You turn that engine past 5500 with a high volume pump and you will toast bearings. Don't believe me - fine. I don't care I will not be the one forking out for a new engine. Remove it now - place it on the floor and hit it with a very big hammer so it can never be used on an engine again. There is never - I repeat never, any application which it can or should be used. Big sump big engine it doesn't matter. If you wish to discuss this with me - feel free to PM me. I can give you the fellows number from the above example and you can speak with him. mate - please listen - remove that pump ASAP. It will not be fine. 6 Mr Polson, gerg, FOMOCOHO and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,875 Posted September 2, 2015 Egon Spengler: There's something very important I forgot to tell you. Peter Venkman: What? Spengler: Don't cross the streams. Venkman: Why? Spengler: It would be bad. Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, "bad"? Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal! Venkman: Right. That's bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon. 7 dougie77, ando76, ricktewagon and 4 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 2, 2015 Just imagine what Ando would do if he could get every Ford HV oil pump ever made in place... 1 wagoon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted September 2, 2015 Yeah mate - It would be a happy day. seriously I know I get a bit irate about it, but I can not see any purpose in them and fitting one is a sure way to kill an engine. I would love to hear the OP's engine builders reason for installing one. 2 Thom and Mr Polson reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wagoon 2,429 Posted September 3, 2015 I laughed when Ando was building my engine and he threw the oil pump gasket out of the shed. I kept the unused high volume oil pump I have very well hidden so he didnt put a hole through the shed wall. That reminds me I must find that pump and get rid of it before he comes back 2 Mr Polson and Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted September 3, 2015 I run hv pumps in 2 of my clevos and my old xr8. The wezors done over 160.000km in my ownership heaps of stupid shit, towtoys done over 32.000 now, and the grey car about 50.000 over the last 8 years and that engine had been around a fair while before I got it.If its In there id just run with it, even more so if its just a streeter that never sees heaps of RPM for a long time, it already has a 7.5 litre sump on it I don't think it will empty that in a hurry and clevos have tons of drain holesA easy way to see what its doing is make a rocker cover with a tall top and cap that unbolts/unclamps hold the engine at RPM and see what its doing none of mine will fill my made up cover and ive held it at RPM for a while and it never fills the cover up much past the gasket (this was more the drain holes are not as big as stock clevo cast heads and I wanted to make sure it was not going to cause a issue with that engine) so I fitted that cover to see. My cover is a stock cover with the top hacked out the top extended about 4 inch with 2 rods welded into it to hold a clear perspecs cover I used it for look at valve train things adjusting rollers and In towtoys case oil drainback. you cant always see thru the clear bit as oil will splash at RPM but its more a rocker adjusting tool then anything else bit I used it for that 1 ronny reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted September 3, 2015 I thort 60 70 PSI of oil pressure is the norm for a clevo? both mine run about 90 95 psi when there cold and 60 to 70 always while driving I seen towtoy it droped under 60 when I was in NSW a little while ago and I flipped out and changed the oil and even cut open the filter to look it over Ive always been told 10psi for every 1000rpm so 70psi for a engine that can turn to 7000rpm 1 ronny reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,356 Posted September 3, 2015 70 psi is about right. Take into account, age of pump, oil viscosity, temp.... blah de blah, blah 1 PRO250 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,875 Posted September 3, 2015 My silly stocker has enough volume to bring the oil lamp on after a run down the motorway. Clevo sumps are marginal at best Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nath 1,975 Posted September 3, 2015 Ok so cue the oil pump freak!!!!!!!!! Right - I'll say this again for the sake of clarity. Never - ever - ever fucking ever run a high volume pump on a ford engine Clevo - crossflow - or Windsor. Fucking ever. ever fucking ever. Ah now I've got that off my chest. Why - because the standard volume pump is way - way - way to efficient. Are you hearing me. Way way way to efficient. How do I know this? Because I am a freak who gets off on building oil pumps to suit customers needs. I sit them on a test bench and set them up on a regular basis. I only did one this week so far, but last week I did 3. I know how much oil they flow in standard form and I can tell you - its lots. Had a mate/customer with a very tough aspo Clevo burnout car ring this week he cut short a big trip away because his Clevo failed oil filter inspection. It runs - restrictor kits, priority oiling system, very good BIG sump and great machining and tolerances - yet still it ate 3 bearings. All with a STANDARD volume pump. Filled the heads full of oil and also the breather. All at 7200rpm. Why - because the standard volume pump had been fitted with a bigger relief spring allowing it to pump 95psi of oil pressure. Now what you also have to realise is that is a massive increase in FLOW as well as PRESSURE. And your engine builder has fitted a high volume pump to your engine???? Why - I'll bet he usually builds chevs. You have to understand the design of the Ford oil pump to appreciate just how good they are and I don't care if you have a 10.5 litre sump. You turn that engine past 5500 with a high volume pump and you will toast bearings. Don't believe me - fine. I don't care I will not be the one forking out for a new engine. Remove it now - place it on the floor and hit it with a very big hammer so it can never be used on an engine again. There is never - I repeat never, any application which it can or should be used. Big sump big engine it doesn't matter. If you wish to discuss this with me - feel free to PM me. I can give you the fellows number from the above example and you can speak with him. mate - please listen - remove that pump ASAP. It will not be fine. I love this forum. 1 Mr Polson reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted September 3, 2015 Okay - there will be a thousand examples out there of engines surviving with a high volume pump. Yep agreed. Do you need a high volume pump - NO. Is there an ever an application that requires one - NO. Yes you can use them - BUT you have to realise that you will be stressing the oil pump drive, camshaft and distributor bush - every single second you run the car. And for what benefit - NONE absolutely NONE. Oh and you run the risk of being very close to emptying your sump should you decide to give it a rev - Oh and that's not even considering cornering forces. As always the choice is yours but really if one person can tell me a positive for running a high volume pump - apart from the wank factor at the pub of saying 'my engines got a high volume oil pump' , then I am all ears. Seriously - if you want to see how much oil these pumps are capable of pushing. Make your self up a test rig - pretty easy just use a sump filled with oil and a fitting onto the top of the oil pump to pump into another reservoir. Connect a drill to a Clevo oil pump drive and turn the drill - most go to about 3000rpm and watch what happens to the oil level in the sump. When you have completed this exercise with a standard volume pump - there is no way known you will want to complete it with a high volume pump. 1 Mr Polson reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 3, 2015 Seriously - if you want to see how much oil these pumps are capable of pushing. Make your self up a test rig - pretty easy just use a sump filled with oil and a fitting onto the top of the oil pump to pump into another reservoir. Connect a drill to a Clevo oil pump drive and turn the drill - most go to about 3000rpm and watch what happens to the oil level in the sump. When you have completed this exercise with a standard volume pump - there is no way known you will want to complete it with a high volume pump. I want to try this now. Fun weekend experiment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hendrixhc 10,939 Posted September 3, 2015 Only reason i would run a High volume oil pump in my clevos is so i could get in Street Fords and say shes running a high volume oil pump. 4 gerg, Nath, ricktewagon and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted September 3, 2015 How much oil does the HV move in 1 min compaired to a stock pump ando? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted September 3, 2015 Must admit - never actually flowed one. The gears are about a 1/3rd bigger so that would be a good guide. I will say this - In my 'top of the line' oil pumps, I actually reduce the size of the standard volume pumps gears. Keep the same pressure - just reduce flow. These pumps are used on high revving (6000+) endurance type motors but would be just as happy in a streeter. Not many streeter type builds want to fork out for these pumps as they are a bit labour intensive, read expensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wagoon 2,429 Posted September 3, 2015 How different is a crossflow high volume pump to a clevo? I have a crossflow high volume pump just sitting there so I could do the flow expirement if its relevant. I have around 15 litres of old oil so I can time how long it takes to fill a 5 litre oil container. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,356 Posted September 3, 2015 That's it !!! I'm calling Mythbusters...... 2 XTREME KARTS XF and wagoon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,875 Posted September 4, 2015 Crossy pumps are same gerotor design but ally body, maybe slightly smaller in capacity. 1 wagoon reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wagoon 2,429 Posted September 4, 2015 No need for mythbusters, I am well versed in their methods, its the most watched show in my house ☺ I might do it anyway as it might workout to be an easy way to transfer the oil from the large container the smaller ones. Plus I would be making use of the pump, wonder if I could tranfer other liquids with it? New portable drill operated transfer/bilge pump? hmmmmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites