Turbo 250 X-Flow. No Power and Clicking

[Clevo120Y 815]

All of the advice is spot on, the only thing I will add is that the engine must fire straight away when new to run a cam in. I prime the oil pump first to check pressure and prime untill I see oil coming out of all the pushrods, fill the fuel bowl with fuel then connect the fuel line. I run just the outer springs as well and hold the revs at 2000 for 20mins. Leave the dizzy bolt slightly loose so you can adjust timing to a safe level as soon as it fires. The race engine got this process on the front lawn and then raced at full revs once the dampers were put in, the cam came out recently and was perfect and is back in again for this season. I also use joe Gibbs lube.

[ando76 4,354]

Yep good point - heaps of assembly lube on the cam lobes.  Jam that shit on there.  Don't worry about the cam bearing journals as priming the oil pump looks after them but smoother the lobes in it and also the base of the lifters.  I also put a dob on each end of the pushrods. 

 

After you run the cam in like this and before you drive the car you MUST replace the oil filter.  Moly grease clogs the filter element in a heart beat and you seriously do not want the filter to be bypassed at this most important time in the engines life.  I just use dirty old z9 ryco filters for cam run in as they are cheap enough to just throw in the bin after you have done the run in. 

 

On race motors I use K&N filters but for a streeter or even a tough streeter a Z9 changed regularly is fine. 

[ricktewagon 39]

Thats cam break in...The cam is fucked and so are the lifters and TBH the whole engine needs to be pulled down and done again as all that metal has gone thru the engine now.Ask me how I know that.

 

There's 1 way to break a flat tappet in and it's time consuming and painful but the ONLY way.Install cam with Joe Gibbs assembly lube,install lifters with lots of lube,install soft outer spring "ONLY" not inners or dampers just the outside,once engine is ready for start up check rockers are set correctly and oil pump is primed with Joe Gibb's run in oil,put a paint mark on the back of the pushrods and leave rocker cover off with bolts and tools to fit cover ready to go and close as possible.Get engine started check the pushrods are infact turning if they are drop the rocker cover on and wind the engine up to 2000rpm and set the timing.

 

Once it has settled down set idle @ 1500 for 5mins then 2500 for 5 mins alternating for 20min's no less.Keep garden hose handy and extinguisher just in case.Once done 20mins...wind idle back to needed speed and let it cool down a bit go for a drive and DO NOT REV OVER 3000RPM.Do this for a week then fit inners and change oil to chosen oil.

 

I don't care what anyone says and this shit it will be right attitude just doe's not work on these as I have killed enough cams to find out.I even pre-heat the oil on first start up and if It had to do it again I'd use warm water aswell circulated by the EWP to put some heat in the block and components to be extra sure.And yes I'd do it on a basic HYD cammed engine too cos been careful is alot better then re building a engine.

Hey Sly, its an EFI engine so I need to remove the Plenum for Rocker Cover access. Do you think I could just run the Cam in with the outer springs as you said & drive for a week as described? I also was going to upgrade to Roller Rockers so what will be the go with them? Thanks. 

[slydog 7,873]

Well thats your call really bro but seeing as it's a hyd with stock rockers ATM it's hard to imagine it would have too much spring pressure anyway.Just have to be super anal about how everything is lubed and priming the oil pump but it will still be a guess.

 

As for the roller rockers if it's a basic low stress engine I'd question why TBH but there is free HP in em.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

I didn't think roller rockers fit under a stock xflow rocker cover....

[gerg 10,871]

There must be some kind of spacer to prop it up, fuck paying 300 bucks for a new one

[PRO250 1,506]

I have a engine with stud mount rockers and they fit under the stock efi cover with some grinding, bolt on adjustable will not

My new engine will have rollers rick, but as rob said cause the cams small there not needed, but I have them already and I hate setting up rockers, rollers you set and forget

[ando76 4,354]

Bolt on adjustable's will fit - you just need to grind in a few places and run two cork rocker cover gaskets.  Done it on every speedway engine I have built.
 
Here is proof.





 

[ricktewagon 39]

The guy that built it lightened, balanced the bottom end, did a lot of head work & it is turbo. Made 253KW when it was built. If I need to space up the Rocker Cover then Ill probably hit on the Plenum wont I? Im actually running a non efi cover at the moment. 

Ill get in Contact with CamTech & find out what the Spring Pressure was since they came from them.

[PRO250 1,506]

Turbo cortys like that mate an you cant lift the cover cause of the manifold

Should have said ando you cant fit them cause you cant lift the manifold but yes you can stack gaskets till it does if theres nothing stoping you going up

[Thom 6,651]

Do bolt on fit under a tin rocker cover?

[Mr Polson 10,214]

If anyone remembers when Nova had NOTAV8, he had to space the rocker cover (EFI one), remove the recess for the k/d cable, as well as grind the bottom of the plenum for it to fit.

[ando76 4,354]

Do bolt on fit under a tin rocker cover?

Yeah they do with a tap with a ball peen hammer where the adjuster hits the cover. No need for double gaskets on them - just a gentle persuasion with the ball peen.

[ando76 4,354]

Personally I would take the time to convert it over to an XG log manifold.  Gets the inlet pipe away from the hot turbo and less piping.  Added bonus is you can actually remove your rocker cover without having to disturb the inlet tract.  I know its a bit of work but really its only time and not much money in the grand scheme of things.

[Thom 6,651]

Handy to know

[XPT 673]

Personally I would take the time to convert it over to an XG log manifold. Gets the inlet pipe away from the hot turbo and less piping. Added bonus is you can actually remove your rocker cover without having to disturb the inlet tract. I know its a bit of work but really its only time and not much money in the grand scheme of things.

If it was me I'd rather adapt something like this : http://m.ebay.com/itm/291093531929 if you were going to that trouble. Still cheap and larger volume than the log manifold

Edit: + shorter runners

[ando76 4,354]

I seem to recall something on the old forum about keeping the runner length to around 6 inches.  That link is a nice piece of kit and cheap enough but I think the runners would end up being too short.  mind you I'm open to suggestions.  there is this weird part of me that likes adapting/re-purposing Ford parts.   

[XPT 673]

With that setup there I would add extensions to the factory runners to at least clear the fuel rail. I don't know if you remember the pics of my intake but I did that by cutting off the banana runner flanges and welding them to straight pieces of 38mm ally tube, then bolted each one up to the injector port part for alignment as I welded the runners to the plenum. I'm not sure about what exact runner length is best as I think it varies with capicity. From what I understand on a turbo engine the rule of thumb is short runners and a large plenum of around 1.5 x engine capicity is optimal.

Take a look at most aftermarket inlet manifolds for turbo cars, they all have large tapered plenums with short runners. For the record the runners on mine ended up about 120mm long in total, partly because of space

[ando76 4,354]

Ok that makes more sense to me now.  Yeah I see most of them are like that.  There was on (plazmaman or process west?) that removed the top half of the broadband manifold and made that plenum and used the bottom half for runner length. 

 

Either way I think we are both suggesting the same thing - get rid of the over the top plenum. 

[ricktewagon 39]

Also, what do you guys think about getting a high volume oil pump? I was thinking of upgrading but noticed It says on the Camtech Cam spec sheet they don't recommend use of them?

[Mr Polson 10,214]

No need for the high volume oil pump in a xflow.

[ando76 4,354]

I am well known for my rants on high volume oil pumps on x-flows - suffice to say they are simply not needed in any application

[gerg 10,871]

Yes I can vouch for that Ando, a standard Clevo oil pump (same design as a crossy) will empty your sump in about 8 seconds. A high volume maybe 6 seconds. Your engine doesn't care how much volume of oil is being rammed into it, just pressure. If it cant use the volume (and a fresh engine certainly won't), it just spits it out the relief anyway.

 

High volume pumps are for Chevs and Holdens, which have less efficient gear pumps. Fords have gerotor type, which are shitloads better.

[ando76 4,354]

I am probably the only freak on here that actually builds and bench tests oil pumps. I also have conducted a science experiment where I turned the oil pump with a drill with the sump off and holding a container of oil under the pump just to see how fast it emptied the container and where the oil 'leaked' from to see if my windage tray design worked.

Yes I need to get a life but this is the reason I build big capacity sumps and windage trays and know the best pickup to sump floor clearance for efficient pumping. Yes I am a freak.

[ricktewagon 39]

So anyway, the engine's out now. Will be getting re-built early in the new year then run in PROPERLY. Ill post some pics of the internals when it all gets under-way.