Turbo 250 X-Flow. No Power and Clicking

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Wiped cam lobe, I'd put money on it. Had the same thing happen to my old Ghia wagon, same symptoms, idled fine except for a noise, but had no power. Took the rocker cover off and had one loose rocker same as in your vid.

 

This is what the cam looked like once I removed it.

 

[Ando81 2,949]

Thanks for sharing that cam pic Mr Polson, I've always heard of it happening to cams but never saw the extent of the damage

[Mr Polson 10,214]

No problems.

 

I think I have a better one somewhere that really shows the lack of lift it ended up with.

 

 

And this is how the lifter looked

 

 

[ricktewagon 39]

Yeah, Thanks for the info. I have a feeling thats what it is. Will let every-one know when I find out....

[Mr Polson 10,214]

Once you pull the lifter you'll know, if the lifter looks like mine did then your cam will probably look similar too.

 

Then it's the fun of removing the cam.....

[ricktewagon 39]

So had a chance this morning to start tearing down the car & Yep, looks like Lifter Fucked. Hooray!! engine with 2000K's & high performance parts cactus! Fuck this shits me. Does any-one reckon this could have been caused by improper cam break in? I reminded the guys who did the tuning four or five times & they said they did but I guess if it's done 2000K's was probably something else.

[Stumps 311]

you might wanna pull the cam out and have a look at the lobes, if you lifters look like that then not much hope for the cam.

[slydog 7,873]

So had a chance this morning to start tearing down the car & Yep, looks like Lifter Fucked. Hooray!! engine with 2000K's & high performance parts cactus! Fuck this shits me. Does any-one reckon this could have been caused by improper cam break in? I reminded the guys who did the tuning four or five times & they said they did but I guess if it's done 2000K's was probably something else.

Thats cam break in...The cam is fucked and so are the lifters and TBH the whole engine needs to be pulled down and done again as all that metal has gone thru the engine now.Ask me how I know that.

 

There's 1 way to break a flat tappet in and it's time consuming and painful but the ONLY way.Install cam with Joe Gibbs assembly lube,install lifters with lots of lube,install soft outer spring "ONLY" not inners or dampers just the outside,once engine is ready for start up check rockers are set correctly and oil pump is primed with Joe Gibb's run in oil,put a paint mark on the back of the pushrods and leave rocker cover off with bolts and tools to fit cover ready to go and close as possible.Get engine started check the pushrods are infact turning if they are drop the rocker cover on and wind the engine up to 2000rpm and set the timing.

 

Once it has settled down set idle @ 1500 for 5mins then 2500 for 5 mins alternating for 20min's no less.Keep garden hose handy and extinguisher just in case.Once done 20mins...wind idle back to needed speed and let it cool down a bit go for a drive and DO NOT REV OVER 3000RPM.Do this for a week then fit inners and change oil to chosen oil.

 

I don't care what anyone says and this shit it will be right attitude just doe's not work on these as I have killed enough cams to find out.I even pre-heat the oil on first start up and if It had to do it again I'd use warm water aswell circulated by the EWP to put some heat in the block and components to be extra sure.And yes I'd do it on a basic HYD cammed engine too cos been careful is alot better then re building a engine.

[PRO250 1,506]

Very hit and miss flat tappet cams these days, I just run them in, and for 10.000km look very closely at them my last one had the cover off every 10 min looking and checking it was ok my utes had the covers off 12 times in 7500km now me being anal about it its get even a hint of a tick miss fart and its apart so far so good.

But then you get cars like chirses beacon. I no shit had it at the drags ringing its neck with 50km on its new valve train and even run the cam in with the 130 pound springs I put in it. I gave it a full check up now its back in his new car and still no issues

That's a fair run in rob, I run it in however I can and hope for the best. If you catch it as soon as it happens you don't need a rebuild, but if it gets that far its toast

Rick go back to the Cortina it rocks, but that's bad luck an  cause you have caught it so late im with rob that's a full strip and build again   



 

[slydog 7,873]

I no shit had it at the drags ringing its neck with 50km on its new valve train and even run the cam in with the 130 pound springs I put in it.

 

That's a fair run in rob, I run it in however I can and hope for the best. 

 

Asking for trouble...I don't have to hope doing it my way cos I know it will be fine.

[Thom 6,651]

 

 

 

So had a chance this morning to start tearing down the car & Yep, looks like Lifter Fucked. Hooray!! engine with 2000K's & high performance parts cactus! Fuck this shits me. Does any-one reckon this could have been caused by improper cam break in? I reminded the guys who did the tuning four or five times & they said they did but I guess if it's done 2000K's was probably something else.

 

 

Thats cam break in...The cam is fucked and so are the lifters and TBH the whole engine needs to be pulled down and done again as all that metal has gone thru the engine now.Ask me how I know that.

 

 

There's 1 way to break a flat tappet in and it's time consuming and painful but the ONLY way.Install cam with Joe Gibbs assembly lube,install lifters with lots of lube,install soft outer spring "ONLY" not inners or dampers just the outside,once engine is ready for start up check rockers are set correctly and oil pump is primed with Joe Gibb's run in oil,put a paint mark on the back of the pushrods and leave rocker cover off with bolts and tools to fit cover ready to go and close as possible.Get engine started check the pushrods are infact turning if they are drop the rocker cover on and wind the engine up to 2000rpm and set the timing.

 

 

Once it has settled down set idle @ 1500 for 5mins then 2500 for 5 mins alternating for 20min's no less.Keep garden hose handy and extinguisher just in case.Once done 20mins...wind idle back to needed speed and let it cool down a bit go for a drive and DO NOT REV OVER 3000RPM.Do this for a week then fit inners and change oil to chosen oil.

 

 

I don't care what anyone says and this shit it will be right attitude just doe's not work on these as I have killed enough cams to find out.I even pre-heat the oil on first start up and if It had to do it again I'd use warm water aswell circulated by the EWP to put some heat in the block and components to be extra sure.And yes I'd do it on a basic HYD cammed engine too cos been careful is alot better then re building a engine.

 

Similar to my process, not to blow my own horn but I have had the same cam in 4 engines with 6 sets of lifters and it's still going

[ricktewagon 39]

So even though it's done 2000K's you reckon that is symptoms of shitty break in?

[slydog 7,873]

Absolutely...would bet my dog on it.

[gerg 10,871]

Your lifters are hardened only for the first couple of thou on the face. Once that's worn through, you're into soft iron and that takes a very short time to carve out. You only notice something's wrong once the lifter' sworn past the point where the hydraulic adjuster runs out of travel to take up the clearance. 2000 km is about how long mine took to do the same thing.

 

It sounds like my story all over again. I still blame shit quality lifters as the second time round i followed the same process only good quality US lifters and a Crow cam. 30,000 ks later and sweet as. If I were to do it again I'd run it in on a stand with outer springs as described above

[PRO250 1,506]

Call it trouble all you like but let assume there is a reason most engine builders run the other way if you don't want to run a roller

Some cams just seem to be poo. You hear it all the time flat tappet cams dieing left right and centre, even pro engine builders having issue. Now if there having problems how is anyone else safe? 

In saying that why did you switch to a roller cam rob? nothing to do with the above reason?

 

[wagoon 2,429]

So even though it's done 2000K's you reckon that is symptoms of shitty break in?

Dude can't imagine how you are feeling after what has been layed out in front of you, I am gutted for you. But unfortunately the people that have responded above know what they are talking about. I would and have put my trust in their judgement and opinions and so far it had not led me astray. They have the runs on the board so to speak about this sort of thing. Hopefully you have a good relationship with your engine builders and they will help rectify what has happened. As soon as possible you need to contact your engine builder and see what they have to say.

[slydog 7,873]

Nothing to do with the cores just the run in process and modern oils IMO.All the cams I wrecked came from Tighe or Camtech and they have different suppliers with different cores.SureCam use high nickle billets and maybe the only ones in Aus to do so for Flat tappets.My only Surecam solid is still fine and has the lifters matched to the lobes but I'd use new lifters cos it will go in a different block anyway.But longer there run in with very little load the better they last plain and simple.Not hard just how to do things properly if you want to use a flat tappet 

 

I went a roller cos I'm related to Jeremy Clarkson too...more powoar so I saved up my money and did it.But it's only part of the combo which a flat tappet didn't fit in with.

[PRO250 1,506]

HAHA Jeremy Clarkson, im calling you that from now on

Robby Clarkson


 

[slydog 7,873]

Too late Burns tagged it first...he is sir Clarkson

[NZXD 2,328]

I did a similar run in as what Sly has said he does, and I've got a roller in my windsor, which doesn't actually really require that level but I wanted to be sure.

 

I had a cortina 2.0 that wiped a lobe die to poor run in, I was guttered.

[gerg 10,871]

At the very least, cut open your oil filter and make sure that all the shavings were caught. They should be on the outside of the element. Replace your oil pump as a matter of course. I'll bet my left one it's cactus from sucking through all those chunks of iron. Particularly bad in an alloy body. Mine was total shizer, and replaced it. Luckily my Clevo still has good oil pressure so I'm not going to strip it in the near future, i guess you just need to make your own judgement on that one.

[ando76 4,354]

Without a doubt that damage has been caused by improper cam run and or shit oil or to high a spring pressure on run it.  as sly has said the pushrods MUST TURN on initial start up.  Reason being the lifters need to be turning on the cam, without that they will wear in only one place or unevenly and will shit themselves and the cam faster that you can imagine.

 

Good oil and oil pressure is a must on initial start up.  If it is lacking then you will have issues.  Use comp cams engine break in lube whether it is flat tappet or hydraulic as it is full of zinc and copper and helps with the initial break in.

 

If it were me I would be pulling the valve spring on the lifter that failed an testing it and the one next to it.  I'll bet my useless left nut that it has a higher seat pressure than the rest of the springs.  Sorry dude but full pull down is in order - at the very least pull no.1 main and big end and check for damage.

 

throw the oil pump to the shit house as it is fucked - no doubt and make sure that you clean the pickup before you put the motor back together. 

[Mr Polson 10,214]

My motor done about 10-15,000kms after its rebuild before the cam/lifter done what it did.

[ricktewagon 39]

Oh well, shit happens I guess. Ill have to make sure Im there in the future for the break in. The engine was built by a mate & I picked it up cheap when he needed to make some cash - so no warranty there. Looks like I need some money! Thanks for all the help guys even though it was bad news. I was a bit hesitant to pull it apart but now am glad I did it myself. Yes, full rebuild on the cards. 

[slydog 7,873]

Thats the go bud,your only a loser if you quit.The basic's will be fine but you will just need to pull it all down and start cleaning and checking measuring everything.

 

Good luck with the build.