Mr Polson 10,214 Posted May 12, 2014 Plan on converting my XF GL wagon to EFI (its going ahead, so don't try and convince me not too, I have polished EFI gear and want the wagon to be identical to a Ghia wagon). Anything to be careful of? I plan on swapping dash, heater box (to an AC/Ghia one), engine bay wiring and adding all the EFI stuff at the same time. Particularly curious as to how the fuel pump setup on the injected wagons work? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 12, 2014 Wow you're a glutton for punishment! You could also stick a knitting needle in your ear for slightly less pain.... But seriously, I understand there are two pumps in a wagon: an in-tank lift pump and external inline pressure pump. 3 steve mcqueen, XTREME KARTS XF and Mr Polson reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,651 Posted May 12, 2014 have you thought about swapping to e series engines management, better ecu, econmy, better power, ditch the afm, but still keep all your polished gear 4 Jonathan Mark Davidson, PH351, XTREME KARTS XF and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFute-1JZsoarer 140 Posted May 12, 2014 That's the way I've gone, more power, more torque, better economy, less emissions and smoother running. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLO247 1,713 Posted May 12, 2014 Make sure you change all the rubber fuel lines for EFI stuff. Higher pressure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted May 12, 2014 Gerg: yeah thought there was two. More need to know how the wiring works for them. Thom: Aftermarket/ECU swap is part of the plans, was thinking of getting a Megasquirt, or would I be better going e series with a chip? Really want to get rid of that damn AFM. Dan, will do. Just the rubber ones? So metal ones are the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLO247 1,713 Posted May 13, 2014 I think they are different too. I just know normal fuel hose isnt rated for EFI pressure. 1 Mr Polson reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,651 Posted May 13, 2014 speak to noobus he has done the swap to e series efi on an xflow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 15, 2014 So I've started on this now, have all the wiring, parts etc, one thing I'm wondering at the moment is do I need to swap the metal fuel lines to the EFI ones? I have noticed they run a different way under the body. And if I do swap them what's the best way to mount them to the chassis? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFute-1JZsoarer 140 Posted September 15, 2014 I'm having the same dilemma with the fuel hoses. I was hoping I could just use the steel lines that was already in place, and swap the hoses for EFI compatible ones. But I'm now thinking of replacing the whole lot (or maybe just the return line) for rubber lines mounted in the standard locations. Haven't figured out how to mount them yet, I'll work that out once I definantly know which way I'm going with the lines... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve mcqueen 1,796 Posted September 15, 2014 I'm having the same dilemma with the fuel hoses. I was hoping I could just use the steel lines that was already in place, and swap the hoses for EFI compatible ones. But I'm now thinking of replacing the whole lot (or maybe just the return line) for rubber lines mounted in the standard locations. Haven't figured out how to mount them yet, I'll work that out once I definantly know which way I'm going with the lines... Mounting clips. You can get these at REPCO, super cheap, Auto 1 etc etc made by Narva. Pipe/cable support clamps part number 56480 Use your steel tube for the fuel feed and buy EFI hose for the return line. Mount them with the above clips. they look like http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NARVA-PIPE-CABLE-SUPPORT-CLAMPS-10mm-STEEL-P-CLAMP-UV-RUBBER-COVER-56480-x10-/291220428772?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43ce1717e4&_uhb=1 3 Mr Polson, XFute-1JZsoarer and XTREME KARTS XF reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valvebouncer 2,389 Posted September 16, 2014 This is what it should look like when dun propreley electrical cablez n fuels hozes n stuff r all same same. Looks good huh?! 5 Ando81, NZXD, Mr Polson and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 16, 2014 I'll keep that in mind Vavlebouncer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy2287 1,886 Posted September 17, 2014 You don't need to change the fuel lines as well. The steel lines will not bust. In fact, If it is the same as carby XF sedan then the Carby fuel lines are bigger than stock EFI lines. I just used adapters to go from 8mm tank pickup to 10mm line but you wont have to worry about that if you use the right fittings on the pump, filter and fuel rail. If your going full custom ECU then you might want to leave the option open for E85 in the future, In which case you will need to replace the lines with braided teflon, stainless or alloy and make sure your using SAE J30R9 spec for external flexible hose and SAE J30R10 for intank. And consider putting a different pump on rather than stock setup. Something like the walbro 255Lph external inline. Can get them on DIY autotune for a good price while your ordering your MS ECU if you go that way. Stock injectors wont support more than 200-220 HP safely so consider increasing the injectors or the fuel pressure if your aiming higher then that. Need more EFI crossy peepe on here =D 1 Thom reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 17, 2014 The issue I have with the carby lines is they run a different route into the engine bay, as well as running differently near the tank (remember its a wagon so 2 fuel pumps, high pressure external and low pressure internal). I have MS ECU to put in soon, but have no plans to go E85, its not readily available in Tas. For now I just want to go with stock setup to get it all working. Don't really have a HP figure in mind... Yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFChris 126 Posted September 17, 2014 Sorry for the hijack, but did someone say you can run e series ecu with a efi crossflow? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 18, 2014 Yep, its one way to get rid of that damn stupid vane meter. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFute-1JZsoarer 140 Posted September 19, 2014 You don't need to change the fuel lines as well. The steel lines will not bust. In fact, If it is the same as carby XF sedan then the Carby fuel lines are bigger than stock EFI lines. I just used adapters to go from 8mm tank pickup to 10mm line but you wont have to worry about that if you use the right fittings on the pump, filter and fuel rail.I wasn't too concerned with the fuel feed pipe myself, as you stated it is a larger diametre pipe anyway. But the fuel return pipe was the one that had me thinking, as it does appear to be quite small... It seems that I'm fortunate that I'm working with a XF ute though, as the fuel lines appear to be routed the same way in the XG also. The wagon sounds a little more complicated in that respect. Sorry to jump in on your post Chris. This subject has had me buggered for a while now, and it's been hard to find info on it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy2287 1,886 Posted September 20, 2014 I have used the stock 6mm return line on my EFI falcon (was a carby) for like... 8 years now using the stock EFI pump. To check for sure that you will not have problems: -Set the car up as it will be used, Fuel system all hooked up. (Or alternatively just hook the pump output directly to the fuel pressure regulator you going to use, Make sure its set to the correct rail pressure if it's adjustable) -Then Disconnect the return line and put it into a 2 liter bottle. So that the return line comes out of your fuel pressure regulator and straight into the bottle. -You need to hotwire your pump on so electrically disconnect it and connect to a GOOD STRONG 12v supply, or even better a 13v supply. We want to test maximum flow, ~13v is what the pump will see with the car running and lower voltage will = less flow. Then use a stopwatch to time how long it takes to fill the 2 liter bottle. We are checking flow rate so to be even more accurate you can have 2 bottles, one for measuring and one for catching the "heads and tails" for lack of a better term, Wait for fuel to flow then while it's flowing transfer the fuel line into the bottle you will measure with and at the same time start the timer. when it reaches 2 liters stop the timer and turn the pump off. You now know how long it takes to flow 2 liters. As an example: In my case it was 1min 12sec so 72 seconds. 2liters (amount measured) times 60seconds(1 minute) divided by 72seconds (the time it took to take the measure) = 2X60/72 = 1.67 liters per minute. You can use this information to: Determine pressure drop across your fuel lines using a flow rate calculator, Ie required fuel line diameters http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/ Determine the limits of your fuel supply, Ie maximum supported HP Determine if your injectors are big enough to support maximum HP Eg, a 6mm ID pipe 4 meters long will drop 0.13 bar at that flow rate or 14.7X.13= 1.9psi. What that means for us is the fuel rail will see a maximum pressure variation of 1.9psi. Greatest at idle or during overrun when fuel use is very low. Which will see a possible 4% error in metered fuel. Which you probably wont notice, and if you do notice it can be fixed in the tune anyway. These are just some examples but im hoping it will set you up with the tools to figure out your fuel system. If i was going to fit a new fuel line then i definitely wouldn't use 6mm, but if i was on a budget a standard fuel system will operate fine with a 6mm line. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFute-1JZsoarer 140 Posted September 20, 2014 That's fantastic info mate, I vaguely remember that method being used by my old man 20 odd years ago, but didn't quite understand how it worked till now, thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 20, 2014 Good info there Crazy, im sure it'll come in handy once I start doing mods after its all running. Heres my issues with using stock carby lines. Standard wagon in tank pick up The steel fuel lines connect to that right outside the tank. EFI wagons have a low pressure internal pickup pump Which supplies the external mounted high pressure pump, with rubber (EFI grade) fuel lines. Which then feeds into the inline filter. Before finally becoming a steel line that runs to the engine bay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFute-1JZsoarer 140 Posted September 21, 2014 Damn, that is quite complex compared to the ute! I've just got the XG intake fuel pump, rubber lines to the steel lines, then back to rubber at the engine bay, which had the filter near the mechanical fuel pump on the crossflow. So much easier by comparison... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Polson 10,214 Posted September 21, 2014 I think Ford done it this way to keep the fuel lines external from the passenger area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XFute-1JZsoarer 140 Posted September 21, 2014 That makes sense, I just don't get why the didn't just put a intank hp pump, cause it's not like they used an external surge tank is it? I wonder if a E series intank pump would help clean it all up and simplify the setup... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites