NZXD 2,328 Posted October 14, 2017 Thought I put up a small build that I'm under taking on the XF Ghia, originally I wanted to keep it 100% original so that meant no LS or Barra swaps. So after reading through a number of turbo crossflow builds and write ups that is the direction I am taking. So to date I have the following parts: Crossflow turbo manifold - individual runner style. 3 inch dump pipe. External waste gate. 42lb injectorsWalbro fuel pump600mm x 300mm fmic Next to be purchased over the next two weeks. Turbo - not sure exactly which. Intercooler piping. Microtech LT10c ECU I have located a C4 and Crossy bellhousing which is located in Darwin - thanks to Xelisty. Any advise is greatly appreciated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 SirkWhyXF, SLO247, Valvebouncer and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 14, 2017 What size flange is the turbo manifold? What sort of flange on the dump pipe?Are you still running a dizzy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 14, 2017 What size flange is the turbo manifold? What sort of flange on the dump pipe?Are you still running a dizzy?The manifold has a T4 flange with a T3 adapter on it, and the dump pipe is 3 inch. With the Microtech I can retain the dizzy and it will control it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 14, 2017 So I would go a gt3582r 1.06ar turbine housing BA-BF spec with an internal gate as they are T3 flanged and great match for a 250. There's a mob in QLD who do good quality turbos at a reasonable price called Proboost. They're a lot cheaper than a garrett bit still good quality, they have quite a few fast cars running their turbos, check them out on FB https://www.facebook.com/proboostperformanceparts/. The reason I ask about the dump pipe is that you can get them in XR6 5 bolt internal gate, 4 bolt and V band (for external gate) So I guess you're going a TFI dizzy, I'd also run a MSD 6A or another quality cdi to avoid ignition breakdown under boost. 1 NZXD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 14, 2017 So I would go a gt3582r 1.06ar turbine housing BA-BF spec with an internal gate as they are T3 flanged and great match for a 250. There's a mob in QLD who do good quality turbos at a reasonable price called Proboost. They're a lot cheaper than a garrett bit still good quality, they have quite a few fast cars running their turbos, check them out on FB https://www.facebook.com/proboostperformanceparts/. The reason I ask about the dump pipe is that you can get them in XR6 5 bolt internal gate, 4 bolt and V band (for external gate) So I guess you're going a TFI dizzy, I'd also run a MSD 6A or another quality cdi to avoid ignition breakdown under boost.The dump pipe came out of an XE that was running this manifold and had a modded XR6 turbo with the five bolt flange, so I will just source the similar set up to keep it simple. Thanks for the link to Proboost. Yes I will be retaining the TFI dizzy and will look into a CDI unit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted October 14, 2017 Was just going to mention the ignition. 6AL programmable is a good unit if running a dizzy. Getting your head around the software and setup is a bit of a task but i did it so anyone can lol. You need to run a GM map sensor to allow the boost timing curve to work. They come in 1-bar (atmo), or 2- and 3-bar (boosted) types. All operate at 0-5 volts output. I'll walk you through it if you end up going that way.Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk 1 NZXD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 14, 2017 6 hours ago, gerg said: Was just going to mention the ignition. 6AL programmable is a good unit if running a dizzy. Getting your head around the software and setup is a bit of a task but i did it so anyone can lol. You need to run a GM map sensor to allow the boost timing curve to work. They come in 1-bar (atmo), or 2- and 3-bar (boosted) types. All operate at 0-5 volts output. I'll walk you through it if you end up going that way. Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk He's running a Microtech, so that will take care of ignition timing and rev limiting. The 6A is just there for cdi so a 6AL or 6AL programmable aren't needed. 1 NZXD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted October 14, 2017 Oh ok. I (wrongly) assumed that Microtech was fuel only.Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk 1 NZXD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, gerg said: Oh ok. I (wrongly) assumed that Microtech was fuel only. Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Yeah I don't think Microtech even make a fuel only ecu anymore. The LT10-C has 4 ignition and 4 injector outputs. So 1 ignition output used and 3 injector outputs running pairs in group fire. The only problem with this is that you can only run high impedance injectors if paired on one driver which limits you if you're going for big power with e85 etc. I think the biggest high impedance injectors you can get are Siemens deka 80lb(875cc) injectors. 2 NZXD and gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 14, 2017 Microtech still do a fuel only ecu, it's listed at about $895, I thought it would be easier to just get the fuel and ignition system to control the lot. Also need to start planning an engine rebuild as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 matt_lamb_160 and XPT reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted October 15, 2017 How easy are forgies to get hold of? Cheap insurance really, if you dont need custom ones. If you can track down 200 rods and use the ACL hypers, that's ok if not boosting through the roof.ARP rod bolts from a windsor, main studs.It wont need too much top end work as this sounds like a midrange donk (sort of like xelisty's yellow one) so mild valve springs with either stock rockers or entry-level rollers. That's the beauty of turbos: power without needing rpm.Same goes for bottom end. Stock balanced crank/rods, std volume oil pump but shim up the relief a bit.Flat-tappet hyd cam, i reckon a towing grind would get the boost on early. Not too much overlap though. Minimum 112 LSA on a duration around the 210@ .050 mark, no more than 0.5" lift. Use viton stem seals to deal with the heat.Best to check which head you have and what kind of chamber it is. Any sharp projections/edges need to be feathered down to avoid hot spots.Not sure if MLS type head gaskets are available but that would be the best choice when running boost, that way you can juggle thicknesses to get the comp where you want it.You have the chance to start from scratch here so have a look at some calculators to see what you need and be clear about what power and boost you plan on running. With these calculators, you basically start with a cam and build your engine around it!Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk 1 NZXD reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 15, 2017 How easy are forgies to get hold of? Cheap insurance really, if you dont need custom ones. If you can track down 200 rods and use the ACL hypers, that's ok if not boosting through the roof. ARP rod bolts from a windsor, main studs. It wont need too much top end work as this sounds like a midrange donk (sort of like xelisty's yellow one) so mild valve springs with either stock rockers or entry-level rollers. That's the beauty of turbos: power without needing rpm. Same goes for bottom end. Stock balanced crank/rods, std volume oil pump but shim up the relief a bit. Flat-tappet hyd cam, i reckon a towing grind would get the boost on early. Not too much overlap though. Minimum 112 LSA on a duration around the 210@ .050 mark, no more than 0.5" lift. Use viton stem seals to deal with the heat. Best to check which head you have and what kind of chamber it is. Any sharp projections/edges need to be feathered down to avoid hot spots. Not sure if MLS type head gaskets are available but that would be the best choice when running boost, that way you can juggle thicknesses to get the comp where you want it. You have the chance to start from scratch here so have a look at some calculators to see what you need and be clear about what power and boost you plan on running. With these calculators, you basically start with a cam and build your engine around it! Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk Thanks for the good info, I'm really aiming for a mild range motor very similar to Xelisty's, his is cranking 300rwhp just under 4000rpm, not sure of the boost level though. I'm thinking of starting at about 8 psi and going from there, it should double it's factory power on that boost level. I'm after a car that is fun to drive, can give you a bit of a fright and take to the track for some fun. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 gerg and XPT reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, NZXD said: Microtech still do a fuel only ecu, it's listed at about $895, I thought it would be easier to just get the fuel and ignition system to control the lot. Also need to start planning an engine rebuild as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Well there you go. Yep, it's a lot easier to have one ecu to tune and add corrections for temp and atmospheric conditions etc. Spool imports do H beam 200 rod and forged piston packages with either Ross or CP pistons, $1800 and $2200 respectively. With only moderate power goals and low revs a set of prepped stock 250 rods with ARPs and a set of hypereutectics like Hypatec should be fine. 2 NZXD and matt_lamb_160 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJDB 103 Posted October 15, 2017 Iv just built one that sounds very similar to what ur going to do. I used standard crank and rod (arp rod bolts) with Mahle 28cc pistons, .020 over and zero decked. Standard unmarked efi head with valve springs, rollers and an old na cam I had laying around(222@.050 .510 lift 108lsa). i got a gt3582 of a territory turbo super cheap and made up myself a split pulse log manifold and internal wastegate dump pipe i found some info on fitting a e-series ecu and efi setup into a xflow and went down that path. Using a j3 chip in a EL ecu with generic tune ATM And i can't complain one bit. Fires up first go when dead cold, goes super good and runs smooth. I plan to tune it myself with a data logger just haven't got around to it as the generic tune is pretty good and fat ATM. havent had it on a dyno or know a power figure but power curve seems similar to xelistys yellow xe. Running 7psi it will pull to 5 but starts to fall flat around 4500. I dropped the diff gears from 3.7 to 3.23 and might even try 2.92. Mines in a corty and will light the rear tyres easy but can cruise around off boost all day long. 3 NZXD, gerg and XPT reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 15, 2017 Iv just built one that sounds very similar to what ur going to do. I used standard crank and rod (arp rod bolts) with Mahle 28cc pistons, .020 over and zero decked. Standard unmarked efi head with valve springs, rollers and an old na cam I had laying around(222@.050 .510 lift 108lsa). i got a gt3582 of a territory turbo super cheap and made up myself a split pulse log manifold and internal wastegate dump pipe i found some info on fitting a e-series ecu and efi setup into a xflow and went down that path. Using a j3 chip in a EL ecu with generic tune ATM And i can't complain one bit. Fires up first go when dead cold, goes super good and runs smooth. I plan to tune it myself with a data logger just haven't got around to it as the generic tune is pretty good and fat ATM. havent had it on a dyno or know a power figure but power curve seems similar to xelistys yellow xe. Running 7psi it will pull to 5 but starts to fall flat around 4500. I dropped the diff gears from 3.7 to 3.23 and might even try 2.92. Mines in a corty and will light the rear tyres easy but can cruise around off boost all day long.Good stuff, I still have the 2.77 LSD, so will be pretty tall but good for cruising, hopefully a higher stall will assist with the gearing for now. I bet in a corty it's a blast. I've read another couple of articles about using an EL ecu and J3 chip. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, LJDB said: Iv just built one that sounds very similar to what ur going to do. I used standard crank and rod (arp rod bolts) with Mahle 28cc pistons, .020 over and zero decked. Standard unmarked efi head with valve springs, rollers and an old na cam I had laying around(222@.050 .510 lift 108lsa). i got a gt3582 of a territory turbo super cheap and made up myself a split pulse log manifold and internal wastegate dump pipe i found some info on fitting a e-series ecu and efi setup into a xflow and went down that path. Using a j3 chip in a EL ecu with generic tune ATM And i can't complain one bit. Fires up first go when dead cold, goes super good and runs smooth. I plan to tune it myself with a data logger just haven't got around to it as the generic tune is pretty good and fat ATM. havent had it on a dyno or know a power figure but power curve seems similar to xelistys yellow xe. Running 7psi it will pull to 5 but starts to fall flat around 4500. I dropped the diff gears from 3.7 to 3.23 and might even try 2.92. Mines in a corty and will light the rear tyres easy but can cruise around off boost all day long. That would be heaps of fun in a Corty, I believe the only limiting factor would be the ability to read boost pressure above 10psi with el ecu and tmap. You could run a boost cut defender and a rising rate regulator to maintain afrs but lose ability to retard ignition vs boost beyond that load point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 15, 2017 That would be heaps of fun in a Corty, I believe the only limiting factor would be the ability to read boost pressure above 10psi with el ecu and tmap. You could run a boost cut defender and a rising rate regulator to maintain afrs but lose ability to retard ignition vs boost beyond that load point.I once had a Series 4 Rx7 (18 years ago) that had a boost cut, only discovered it when I fitted a 3 inch exhaust, it cut fuel once above 7psi, made a little valve thing that bled off pressure, back then didn't think about extra fuel to compensate for additional boost, went hard though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 XPT reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XPT 673 Posted October 15, 2017 I bet it went hard lol. Luckily most cars were tuned rich back then. I've never heard of that sort of BCD. I was thinking more the type that clamps the map /afm at the highest voltage/load point that the ecu can read. Eg clamping the map signal at 5V Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJDB 103 Posted October 15, 2017 Yeah Iv played with the boost tee and worked out a way around the 10 psi but will probably stay under 10 or around 10 due to the basically stock bottom end. It's pretty easy I just put a one way emission purge valve on the line to the map sensor. I put it all together with bits and pieces I had laying around and parts of my n/a engine. I've upgraded the injectors, using a quality fpr, msd street fire and a bosch 044 pump. 1 XPT reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 15, 2017 I bet it went hard lol. Luckily most cars were tuned rich back then. I've never heard of that sort of BCD. I was thinking more the type that clamps the map /afm at the highest voltage/load point that the ecu can read. Eg clamping the map signal at 5V It was like a small sensor box that ran a line from the intake, and it served as a fuel cut for over boost and also operated the factory boost gauge, so once the exhaust was opened up the waste gate could control it, common problem on those, and yeah would just cut fuel, you could unplug it and that solved the problem and it would boost hard - probably only 10psi, but the gauge didn't work. So I made up a t piece with this little bleed valve. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 XPT reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted October 30, 2017 Big thanks to XELISTY for the C4 and bell housing for the crossflow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 deankxf, Thom, SirkWhyXF and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted March 24, 2018 Well today the XF Ghia retired from daily duties, and over the past 12 months it hasn’t let me down. The XF will begin it’s new adventure as it undergoes it’s slight transformation. My new G6E will take over the normal duties from now on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 Valvebouncer, EgoXF, deankxf and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,290 Posted March 24, 2018 not enough pics in this thread sounds like a well planned project Share this post Link to post Share on other sites