Crossflow Build Advice

[slydog 7,873]

Well said Webby.

[PRO250 1,506]

when I did my boosted engine for the white car I just decompressed a engine I had under the bench pressed the pistons off the rods made sure the new 29cc pistons weighed the same as my 15cc ones and refitted them and swaped the head

My first crossy was a total shitta bits of crap from end to end and it still went 13.8 in my white corty i had change from a $1000 back then 1997 I think it was stuff costs more now as a 4 barrel manifold back then was $212 on your door. I was young and stupid back then if I knew what I know now that car would have been in the 12s with a sniff of something or real broken i remember back then i thort a engine made a car fast how dumb was I back then LOL

Just build the thing keep it basic. Like ants says "Build it and they will come" im unsure who "they" are, his mates with cans maybe?  but its a good saying  

[slydog 7,873]

First build should be a trial and learn.A first big build is a STEEEEEEEP learning curve and TBH way to much shit going on in here to process.Just build somthing and start driving learning with it cos I'll bet my balls you won't be happy with prob the first 3 attempts. Each one will be able to be done better but dropping it all on the first shot and then breaking it thru a rookie error you didn't know about is not a nice thought.Simple shit like dialling in the camshaft can take 30mins or 5hrs but maybe 25% of people actually do it. 

 

Just saying...Rob    

[Nath 1,975]

First build should be a trial and learn.A first big build is a STEEEEEEEP learning curve and TBH way to much shit going on in here to process.Just build somthing and start driving learning with it cos I'll bet my balls you won't be happy with prob the first 3 attempts. Each one will be able to be done better but dropping it all on the first shot and then breaking it thru a rookie error you didn't know about is not a nice thought.Simple shit like dialling in the camshaft can take 30mins or 5hrs but maybe 25% of people actually do it. 

 

Just saying...Rob    

Cheers dude, at the end of the day I was kind of expecting that exact situation - doing anything for the first time is usually a soup sandwich.

 

Everything is pretty much decided already I'm just ordering and waiting for parts this week, then deciding on exactly what's happening machining wise.

 

Stay tuned for the "does this look right? Please unfuck my engine" thread.

[broken-wheel 659]

another tip ... don't change your mind once you start, that will only end up bad

[wagoon 2,429]

First build should be a trial and learn.A first big build is a STEEEEEEEP learning curve    

I agree 100% with this. You either follow a plan set out for you 100% and not deviate from the plan for even one second (no what if's or how abouts). Or like a job you start at the bottom put up with the shit, learn the ropes and work your way up from there.

[TUFE 284]

My turbo motor has cast pistons, its in the tune. Dont drop 1k on pistons that will most likely not be needed. I loooove this thread though

[Nath 1,975]

So do I.

 

Even though it's already decided feel free to keep talking about different setups... I'm learning a lot.

[wagoon 2,429]

While the advice is flowing....

Realise that no matter how hard your try and no matter how much money you throw at the car you cant have a comfortable no stress cruiser that will run quick 1/4 times (not talking single digits but fast for how much horsepower the engine makes)have the car handle "like it's on rails" and be a dyno champion. You have to pick only one if you want to be competative or considered at a reasonable level.

Then the old triangle of performance comes into play, choose two

1.reliable

2.cheap

3.fast

[matt_lamb_160 252]

Why can't it be a dyno champion and handle well??

[wagoon 2,429]

Because if the suspension and chassis is to tight and you have shit loads of horsepower it wont put it down on the rollers and you wont register a true reading

[ando76 4,354]

I totally disagree with that comment Ryan.  When cars are on the dyno, they are strapped down to within a inch of their lives.  A stiffer suspension set up will actually help in gaining a very true reading of HP as the car cannot climb the front roller as easily.
 
The inaccuracies and fudged dyno figures usually occur when the car is not strapped down correctly and is allowed to climb off the rear roller and just spin the front roller.

The stiffer the sidewall of the tyre the more accurate power reading you will get out of the dyno (if it is tied down correctly). 

 

I'm not just pulling this from my own experience.  I heard it straight from the Australian distributor of Mainline dyno's when he installed Cliffs dyno.  Loosen the straps and you get a better number were his near exact words.

 

Therefore I would say that the stiffer the cars suspension the more likely you are of getting it real tight on the dyno and you will make accurate HP, hopefully big numbers to - but that is up to your head and then camshaft - but that's another story.

[NZXD 2,328]

I was watching on YouTube a FORD G6et running 9.99 @ 150 mph, clearly cost a hell of a lot of money but retains all interior comforts, externally looks stock and probably drives nice too.

[wagoon 2,429]

But getting a car to handle really well on the road is not all about stiff suspension as you know Ando. And for a crossflow to have enough power to be winning dyno comps then roll the car off the dyno and hold its own through the corners I just don't think it can be done without making adjustments before heading out.

And yes the new ford turbo engines have over 1000hp and still maintain drivability with all the creature comforts but I was talking about a crossflow powered car trying to get the point across to Nath that he really needs to pick 1 thing he wants the car to be good at or be happy that it will be reasonable at a few things.

[Nath 1,975]

I'm happy for it to be reasonable at a few things. More fun that way.

[NZXD 2,328]

For sure wagoon.

 

To be honest Nath your XD is probably reasonable as it is for an XD.

 

I have over time thought up heaps of mods etc, as my mind changes as to what I want, right now I'm into fitting more gears as I would like lower revs at 100, plus the NT has an open road limit if 130 and with the current single rail it would spin at about 3400 at that speed.

 

I also like the ride height but it's stiff, so I'm exploring the front RRS strut conversion. The rear is another story.....

 

Engine wise, my head is always thinking of shit, probably best to leave it and enjoy what I've got for now. It gets up off its ass quick and bags the tyres without trying to hard.

[wagoon 2,429]

Suppose the it really is personal opinion as to what you think a certain setup should be. Some people think a cruiser should a laid back power doesnt really matter sort of thing where other people think a cruiser must be a lumpy V8 that is for cruising to a local hangout. What I consider dangerous handling someone else would love. Some would say my roller sedan is a cheap build others would only want to spend half as much. Main thing is dont expect to run 11's on the 1/4, cut a really good lap time around a circuit and have a car that is comfortable enough to glide over our shitty roads with ease.

[Nath 1,975]

No luck with finding a set of Scorpion roller rockers.Anyone have any idea how much they normally go for? Street Terras are like 500 give or take...
 

 

Seen Scorpion sets for clevos, I vaguely remember hearing they fit crossy as well. 3-4 hundred.

[slydog 7,873]

Buy em for a v6 Thunderbird 1.73 ratio or buy a clevo set in 1.73 ratio for around $300ish thru eBay shops or Summit US on line.

[ando76 4,354]

I paid $80 dollars for my last set of bolt on adjustable yella terra street terra - that have just done a full season of speedway with Brenton flogging them.

 

The deals are out there.   You need to scan Gumtree and FB pages my friend. 

[matt_lamb_160 252]

Sorry, wagoon, I still have no idea where you are heading with hp and cornering. HP and driveability maybe but driveability and handling are two distinctly different things.

 

Good tip on those rockers Sly, I would not have thought of a V6 T-Bird.

[matt_lamb_160 252]

Bargain Ando. My last set of rockers were $200 (Adjustable Yella Terras in 1.73:1)

[wagoon 2,429]

driveability and handling are two distinctly different things.

That is my point

 

Here you go Nath, ozfalcon thread regarding scorpion rockers with part numbers for v6

http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/1103-scorpion-roller-rockers-for-crossflow/?hl=scorpion

 

And here is the summit page http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/scc-scp1069bl

 

You will not find a 6 cylinder set here in Australia unless someone has brought them in, as the particular V6 was never offered in Australia as far as I know. I did a shipping quote to Australia on the summit page and it $54 for shipping then add $188 for rockers makes $242. Take into consideration exchange rate will be $306 AUS dollars on your door step. Exchange rate site here is very easy to use http://www.xe.com/

 

So yes if you can find cheap used set go for them otherwise scorpion will be cheapest new ones.

[PRO250 1,506]

Cast 29cc pistons preped stock rods this thing has been 9.27 at 146mph and is reason enough for me to stay with my cast slugs and stock rods

 

[NZXD 2,328]