My Clevo build - Thoughts

[ando76 4,354]

Cheers mate - yeah he went above and beyond what I asked for so it will be interesting.  Not really chasing bulk HP on this engine.  More of a really low down grunty pig with a mountain of torque. 

 

I really want to just lay two big fat black lines out of every corner at Leyburn and just have huge plumes of smoke billowing out from the rears.  For me Leyburn will not be about setting the fastest time.  Having the most fun and trying to entertain the crowd with the sound of a strong clevo and bulk tyre smoke is my goal.  Hopefully it will trigger a few memories for people.

 

I remember as a kid going down to the local Kmart carpark to watch a motorkhana - back in the days before insurance and public liability - and there was a guy there in a tough as HQ 4 door.  He had no intentions of winning the event but man did he put on a show.  big black lines everywhere and bulk tyre smoke that brought stupid grins to the crowd and of course the driver.  The officials and some of the competitors were not that thrilled but man I was impressed.  I still remember it. 

[Thom 6,654]

Please yourself, then the crowd and you'll enjoy every drive

[wagoon 2,429]

I think its funny how boring, sedate and tame racing has become. I love watching the catergories where the cars move around a bit under brakes and acceleration, where it takes skill and reflexes to control the car.

I cant wait to see this at leyburn cause Im going to be one of the spectators with a grin on their face as it goes past.

[ando76 4,354]

Yeah and then you will be out racing the XE!!!  Yahoo.  Might have to dual enter in the mini so I can at least have a chance at posting a fast time.

 

Yeah Thom - I will have a grin from ear to ear - especially after I tow the mini down on the car trailer - leave the tow ball on - bolt on a pair of sacrificial tyres and just go rank. 

[bear351c 10,273]

I think its funny how boring, sedate and tame racing has become. I love watching the catergories where the cars move around a bit under brakes and acceleration, where it takes skill and reflexes to control the car.

 

 

LMAO...........Exact reason why I bought an old Falcon. Well said.

[ando76 4,354]

Remember when they had to nurse the cars through Bathurst?  Show some knowledge of the mechanical workings of the car (mostly attained through actually building the bloody things themselves) and drive to make the car last. 

 

Technology is a good thing but the 'steering wheel attendants' we have nowadays just don't know how good they have it.  Lowndes and Van Gisberg are probably the only true drivers out there.  Look when Whingecup tried to chuck a skid at Tasmania - he stuck it in the wall.

 

Anyway Saturday arvo is getting closer by the minute.  Can't wait.  I know the figures we achieved with a much smaller inlet valve so I am a little excited.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

Please yourself, then the crowd and you'll enjoy every drive

thats the attitude i have towards sex.

 

Remember when they had to nurse the cars through Bathurst?  Show some knowledge of the mechanical workings of the car (mostly attained through actually building the bloody things themselves) and drive to make the car last. 

 

Technology is a good thing but the 'steering wheel attendants' we have nowadays just don't know how good they have it.  Lowndes and Van Gisberg are probably the only true drivers out there.  Look when Whingecup tried to chuck a skid at Tasmania - he stuck it in the wall.

 

Anyway Saturday arvo is getting closer by the minute.  Can't wait.  I know the figures we achieved with a much smaller inlet valve so I am a little excited.

 

id say young scottys a bit of a natural driver too.... but agree on the most part.

 

lookin forward to the results.

[ando76 4,354]

Scotty McLaughlin - yeah and a tradesman that did his time working on GRM cars - how good is that.  This time tomorrow we will know how the results.  Yahoo.

[ando76 4,354]

The results are in and what can I say but WOW!!! Cam has done a brilliant job once again.  Especially with my insistence on using the open chamber heads to keep the date stamp thing correct.  Remember this head package is not about outright performance.  If you want outright performance you just go and buy a set of alloys and be done with it.  The aim of this package was better than stock performance whilst maintaining a visually standard look.

 

Anyway enough of the carry on - here are the results.  The figures in the brackets are stock 2v closed chamber iron heads on the same bench.

 

            IN                                     EX

100    64     (56)                           49.4  (44)

200    130   (112)                         97     (75)

300    192   (158)                         130   (101)

400    244   (175)                         158   (122)

500    222   (185)                         179   (136)

600    222   (189)                         193   (149)

 

I'm REALLY happy.  The heads take off like a rocket and flow well to 400.  They get really noisy and slow down after that.  WHY?  The short turn and the open chamber design. 

 

Due to the corrosion found in the block it was decided to go really easy on the short turn to avoid hitting water and wasting a set of date stamp correct 2v iron heads.  They are not making them anymore..  Also with the open chamber, the shape of the combustion chamber has a lot to do with the way the air enters the cylinder. 

 

Having said all that the heads are perfect for the application.  They suit the Hydraulic cam and by keeping the comp down we should be able to keep a check on the detonation that these heads can suffer.  Programmable ignition will also help. 

 

Should make for an interesting ride.

[wagoon 2,429]

I really dont know how Cam does it, making stuff flow right where it needs it but nit sacrificing else where. Should definatly be a fun car to drive

[Jestr75 41]

Just read your thread. It's a good read. Your heads flow very similar to my open chambers. Good work! Haven't got my engine together yet though

[ando76 4,354]

I really dont know how Cam does it, making stuff flow right where it needs it but nit sacrificing else where. Should definatly be a fun car to drive

Yeah he is pretty damn good. If you were game, another hour on the grinder would probably net 250 at 500 and 600. But to be honest Cam and I were not game enough. It is what it is and they should do the job just nicely.

 

Now I just need to get the Mad Scientist Crossflow done so I can build this weapon.

[XFGHIA747 76]

Well there interesting results tony gonna have a wicked mid range with plenty of torque to real the smoke off, with a 500 lift cam with strong mid section would pull like a train i reckon. Well done to Cam, that exhaust flows well also, love the increase from 300-400 on the inlet,

[Thom 6,654]

I may be barking up the wrong tree here but have you looked at comp cams 268h grind, would be nearly ideal it's a great torquey cam (I've run them in a few engines including my own) and can make a heavy car alot of fun without breaking the bank (or driveline) in a stock looking engine

[XFGHIA747 76]

+1 on the 268h thom a mate of mine is running one in fairlane with mild ported 2v closed chamber heads, for a lane sure as hell gets her moving running a performer with a quickfuel 750 i think.. its a nice grind felt alot nicer then the f246 thats was in it!.

[ando76 4,354]

Yeah men that is not a bad stick and could work well.  I already have the XE274h so I will use it and see how it goes.  I'm not overly worried about the drop off in flow after 400.  Flow benches are a great tool but sometimes what you see on the bench doesn't always carry over into real world applications.

 

With the addition of a fuel into the equation the issue at .500 may well disappear and with a cam going to .560 we are still making use of some pretty good flow still at 222cfm.  The low to mid range flow figures show that this engine will be very strong off the bottom and into the mid range - exactly what I wanted.  With a wide 110 lobe separation it should hold the torque very well.  The exhaust design I have in mind will also pull hard on the intake and this really should be a load of fun.

 

I thank you all for your input on the cams, its good to hear what others have used and what works. 

[gerg 10,871]

Hey whatever floats your boat (or coffin) i guess

 

I reckon 233/178 cfm.

 

Geez I wasn't far off! Ok exhaust came up a lot more (very impressive) but that means you won't need a split pattern cam like stock heads do.

[ando76 4,354]

Yeah not far off gerg - I thought we were heading for some good numbers with the 400 figure but then the curse of chamber and short turn hit. 

 

Still I'm stoked.  This package should work well. 

[gerg 10,871]

Obviously the limitations of hitting water sooner meant that this is what you have to work with. Definitely nothing to sneeze at and flow equal to or better than out-of-the-box Edelbrock alloys. That drop off at 0.500 is possibly due to the air coming off the short-turn and instead of curving under, preferring to separate from the wall. It then hits the valve or even the opposite side, which is the shrouded side of the chamber, and becomes turbulence city. So you could say that both issues compound each other. Still not really issues at all when you have such good low-lift flow. This would make a small cam much bigger. I'd be chuffed!

[ando76 4,354]

Were you standing beside me at the flow bench??

 

That is exactly what Paw paw and I said was happening.  You could hear it through the port.  AFD heads have a very good short turn but due to the limitations we were working with that is the best that could be done without destroying a perfect date stamped set of heads.

 

I am sure that when fuel is added to the equation this package will work to .560 and work very well.  Low to mid range figures are always where we want to see gains and we have done it. 

 

Really just want to get this thing built and finish the shell so that I can start playing with gearing for Leyburn.  I reckon with the torque we should be able to run gearing that allows just 1st and 2nd gear to be used whilst still being fast.  Time time time...

[ando76 4,354]

 

Just to prove I'm not full of shit and just posting random figures - here are the heads bolted to the bench. Gotta love Paw Paw's bench. Carton of xxxx Gold stubbies buys as much flow testing as you want, and you get to help drink the beers.

 

Champion bloke with a wealth of information stored in the laptop attached to the bench and inlet and exhaust plugs and profiles taken from excellent performing heads.

[gerg 10,871]

If that's the case, I'll jump on the next flight up there with a pair of iron 2Vs as carry-aboard luggage. Sounds like a legend!

[ando76 4,354]

Yeah he is a top bloke to boot and a very talented CNC machinist. He favours the other brand but that's okay - we all have to start somewhere. He has a very tough VK streeter in build and a full chassis VL in the shed that has been his life work. Not to mention an array of machining tools hidden behind the flow bench room.

 

Very quiet unassuming fella and happy to share his knowledge. Good bloke to know really.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

good results on the heads, i was going to say the exact same thing about the short turn causing turbulence.

your exhaust flows really well especially considering you kept the standard valves, figures are almost identical to mine, though my inlets flow a bit more up at .5-.6" lift (stable at 242-246cfm), either way top result.
 

i reckon the 268h would provide better off idle torque, but have a slightly lower torque number over all, and with the gearing i think it would all be over too soon to enjoy it, great with a car that you want to cruise with though, definitely agree.

the xe274h i think would provide a bit of a hole down low, but with the wide ratio toploader and 3:0 gears in the ass you won't feel it at all, it'll rev out to 6K comfortably as well. definitely feel more sporty with this cam, and i honestly think that's what you'd enjoy more for a sunday driver.

driven a couple of clevos with this cam, was really surprised how well it performed (granted one had AFD 2v's on it).

[ando76 4,354]

Yeah I am thinking that the camshaft will perform very well.  What we have to remember is that fuel laden air is heavier than just air itself.  That is all the flow bench measures - straight air.  When you put atomised fuel into the equation these heads may well maintain that 245cfm right up to .560" lift.  I say this because the fuel laden air might like to cascade over the short turn much better than what pure air does.  time will tell.

 

I'm not sure that we will experience any hole off idle as the cfm doubles from 100 to 200 and then keeps on rocketing.  If you can create that initial rush of air it is amazing what you can overcome. 

 

Ian Moo Moody (the creator of the Ford 6 ultraflow manifold and his own alloy red holden heads) cast an eye over the heads and questioned Cam on Camshaft, compression and application and he said it will be a stout combo.  That's good enough for me.  Moo knows his stuff and he was a great mate of GT and is still mates with Cam.  Cam does the porting on his alloy read heads. 

 

Anyway all this is theoretical and I need to get my shit together so I can get this thing together.  I may be able to swindle an engine dyno session so we may see what this things has before the car is even finished.  stay tuned.