h/v oil pump with standard sump

[LJDB 103]

im running a h/v oil pump and standard sump on my cortina. what are the chances of all the oil being in the head if im flat to the boards in top gear.

i know everyones against the high volume pumps but thats whats in it at the moment.

 

[slydog 7,873]

Well the oil HAS to go back to the sump,but at what rate and in what condition is the question here? I don't think it would be a issue if only done for short periods but if you plan on going to the salt lakes I'd look to change it.

[Tyler06 266]

To wat revs and the standard sump needs to be modified to use a HV pump as it fouls and pierces holes in it, the corty sump is shit and you will have oil pressure problems without block passage mods etc.

[ando76 4,354]

Yes a high volume pump will empty that sump in a heart beat and leave all the oil in the top end.  Until you have had a standard pump on a hydraulic test bench you just can't understand the quantity of oil that they are capable of pushing. 

 

Flat to the boards in top gear would be up there in the revs I imagine and your HV pump is more than capable of emptying the sump, add in a left hand bend to 'flat to the boards in top' and you will most certainly make a very big hole in the block. 

 

The problem with the standard pump (in the standard form) is that they are just to efficient and continually relieve internally, which stresses the oil.  This is a real problem on fresh engines with good bearing tolerances as the pump is continually relieving.

 

To understand the functioning of the oil pump you have to think what it was originally designed for.  FORD built these motors knowing they were going to be used in taxis and other high milage applications.  Basically they were built to last.  This means they had to design a pump that would flow enough oil even when the bearings were getting real sad.  This is why you can have an engine with bearings to the copper and still see 45-50psi in oil pressure.  I just pulled an engine down that was exactly like this, down to the copper on the big ends and still showing 50psi at idle.  In order to achieve this they made a pump that would work when the engine was fresh (continually relieving internally) and when the engine was worn (not so much oil passing over the relief). 

 

Then someone comes along and makes a high volume pump for one???? Why???Because other engines don't have such an efficient oil pump and they need a high volume pump to make them last.  So the Ford X-Flow must need one too, so we will make one of those and flog off a few cause a high volume pump just has to be better!!  Wrong in the x flow application I can assure you. 

 

If you want your block to stay as one nice piece of cast iron, don't rev the thing (in any gear) until you pull that high volume pump off and get a bigger sump. I know this as I have spent hours on a Hydraulics test bench mucking around with oil pumps.  Why - because I'm a freak and I had an oil pressure issue once and I was determined to get on top of it so I spent way too much time analysing the oiling system of these motors.

 

Rant over - Yes I am a little precious about oil pumps - 95% of engine failures are oil related in my experience.

[LJDB 103]

good info guys. the pumps already in the car so someone has probably already modified the sump to fit.

as a short term fix can i put more oil in to compinsate. i might be pulling the engine out soon to sort out some other issues so il change the pump then. whats involved in modifing a standard pump.

[ando76 4,354]

You can add more oil but this is can than cause the issue of the crank swimming in oil for most of the time. Easy fix is to no rev it hard. Pull the thing out and chuck a modified standard one in there and enlarge your drain holes in the block while you are at it.

[Thom 6,651]

good info guys. the pumps already in the car so someone has probably already modified the sump to fit.

as a short term fix can i put more oil in to compinsate. i might be pulling the engine out soon to sort out some other issues so il change the pump then. whats involved in modifing a standard pump.

 

Not such a good idea, if you fill it up too much an the crank ends up swimming in oil it induces extra load on the crank most times creating a power and economy loss and can vise huge vibrations throughout the car

[bear351c 10,272]

...........and if the crank touches the oil, it will froth. Causing bubbles.

 

Spoke to Crane and Crow when I was buying a cam for my 351, and they both suggested "NO" to a Hi volume oil pump. As Ando wrote above ^^

(and put in an oil bypass kit, eh Thom? ) 

[PRO250 1,506]

not to disagree with anyone as there on the money. but some years ago i had a sporty corty that had a HV pump (i did not fit it) and it was a ok engine that would rev and i use to run it over full as most of them cause of what chris said the sumps are not real good. i never had issues with that engine but if you did burnouts out would piss oil out the top of the engine LOL

 

it should be fine but if it dies cause your oil was in the topend while you where doing the salt lakes run you cant say you have not been told

 

takes 30min to remove a corty engine, another 30min to check a standed volume pump and install it, and about a hour to much arond with gasket and cleaning so on, so not even a weekend job and $150 so not that much time or money, and it may save your engine

[PRO250 1,506]

Yes a high volume pump will empty that sump in a heart beat and leave all the oil in the top end.  Until you have had a standard pump on a hydraulic test bench you just can't understand the quantity of oil that they are capable of pushing. 

 

Flat to the boards in top gear would be up there in the revs I imagine and your HV pump is more than capable of emptying the sump, add in a left hand bend to 'flat to the boards in top' and you will most certainly make a very big hole in the block. 

 

The problem with the standard pump (in the standard form) is that they are just to efficient and continually relieve internally, which stresses the oil.  This is a real problem on fresh engines with good bearing tolerances as the pump is continually relieving.

 

To understand the functioning of the oil pump you have to think what it was originally designed for.  FORD built these motors knowing they were going to be used in taxis and other high milage applications.  Basically they were built to last.  This means they had to design a pump that would flow enough oil even when the bearings were getting real sad.  This is why you can have an engine with bearings to the copper and still see 45-50psi in oil pressure.  I just pulled an engine down that was exactly like this, down to the copper on the big ends and still showing 50psi at idle.  In order to achieve this they made a pump that would work when the engine was fresh (continually relieving internally) and when the engine was worn (not so much oil passing over the relief). 

 

Then someone comes along and makes a high volume pump for one???? Why???Because other engines don't have such an efficient oil pump and they need a high volume pump to make them last.  So the Ford X-Flow must need one too, so we will make one of those and flog off a few cause a high volume pump just has to be better!!  Wrong in the x flow application I can assure you. 

 

If you want your block to stay as one nice piece of cast iron, don't rev the thing (in any gear) until you pull that high volume pump off and get a bigger sump. I know this as I have spent hours on a Hydraulics test bench mucking around with oil pumps.  Why - because I'm a freak and I had an oil pressure issue once and I was determined to get on top of it so I spent way too much time analysing the oiling system of these motors.

 

Rant over - Yes I am a little precious about oil pumps - 95% of engine failures are oil related in my experience.

 

dude your scaring me LOL

 

arr good old ford thinking of the little guy. look how long there stuff lasts happy days for everyone with a non xflow crossy and even the new ohc stuff

[ando76 4,354]

I know of a roller-camed x-flow race motor up here that has a standard volume oil pump in it with 1/3rd machined off the standard oil pump gears!!!!!!

 

This motor is in its 6th season without a rebuild and won the club championship last year. Enough said!!

 

Yes I scare myself sometimes too, so you are not alone.....

[Clevo120Y 815]

^^^is that done to limit the amount of oil it can pump but maintain the desired pressure?

[ando76 4,354]

Spot on clevo. Also reduces load on the oil pump which in turn reduces load on the cam.  Clever dude the fella that built that engine.  He can adjust the pressure without removing the sump due to mods he had made around the relief core area which allows him to wind pressure in and out thru an access hole in the sump.  Like I said, very clever man.