Valvebouncer

Cheers, the dash and heater box has already been swapped over from the XG to the XF cos the young fella wanted the star wars cluster and the XF didn't have A/C...
 
If the motor's out shouldn't be too hard to swap out the water pump and piping i'd assume.  Compression is good and there's no water in the oil so head gasket appears to be OK, but not hard to change it while it's out.
 
He doesn't get his learners permit till March next year so time isn't an issue; plus it'll be good bonding time with him   Just have to ignore the whines and nags from the Mrs with the dunger taking up room while we strip it.
 
And Dean ... All good on the Gemini's we all have our own little personal issues here and there
 

Nothing wrong with the running gear in the '91 XF, it's only done 180k motor is quiet and strong but it's got an auto and son wants a manual.  I have both of the utes already and not afraid to get my hands dirty with cutting brackets from the XG to weld back into the XF if that's what's required.  The original plan was to move the manual over to the XF from the XG but sourcing the bell housing is an additional cost that's not necessary if i just move the motor as well.
 
The 4.0OHC injected motor is probably more suited to a daily driver with not having to stuff around with carbys as well.  The 4.0 only needs a new set of welsh plugs and it's perfectly good for use again.  I'd simply fix up the XG but the body is in really poor condition having lived lord only knows how long under a tree, but it's complete and suitable as a donor car.

351Ws are slightly taller than a clevo block, much taller than a 302W: 9.5" vs 9.2" vs 8.2".

They're about 20kg heavier assembled, and have a massive crank in them, very similar to a 351M.

Basically a truck engine. But anything can make power if you throw the right bits at it

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My understanding was the same, when I asked at auto shops for headbolts I kept getting the response “ use the old ones mate” to which I replied “ you just stick to ordering in the parts and taking my money and I’ll stick to screwing them together”. I ended up buying them from outlaw speed shop in S.A. They turned up the next day, $94. Heaps cheaper than anyone here.

So what is the verdict on head bolts? Are they torque to yield or normal?@Thom?

As far as I'm aware the Windsor bolts weren't torque to yield, but I've bought new ones for all of the roller 5.0's I've done, sometimes they've been corroded pretty bad on the bolts that go into the water jacket

This one

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Believe it or not, I bought new flywheel bolts from ford. Barras run the same metric bolts.

You need to measure the cover and balancer. If they are the same the top one looks like a normal front seal.

4k is a waste purely on hop-ups for a 302. That said, you can spend up on them now if you plan go to 351 later.

I'm not one of those folks who straight away says "302s are dogs, don't bother, etc" because I have one in my wagon. My reasoning was that it was cheap, already rebuilt engine, and it could go in front of a 6-cyl driveline. I run a 6-cyl T5 in mine.

It all depends on what you're doing to it. If you're rebuilding, 4k will be soaked up very quickly in machining and new engine parts, etc.

If your current engine is healthy, money is best spent on the top-end. Get the heads done up with upgraded valve springs, hardened seats, 3-angle valve job, press-on stem seals, shave to get up to 10:1 comp, tidy up the ports to take out dags and ridges. Not including the ports, which I did myself, this whole job cost me about $1400 with parts. Have a look in my thread (gergwagon revamp) to see what I did to my ports.

Don't waste money on an inlet manifold. The only advantage would be weight. The standard iron 4-barrel clevo one is good unit, and would be more than adequate on a 302. The only consideration would be if you have the choked-down (funnel) one that came with the 302, the earlier 4-hole one or the one with 2 open plenums. The last one is most desirable. Mine was the choked one but my brother machined it out to open.

The bottom end, if in good order, will handle decent rpm stock. The short-stroke 302 will sit on 6500 rpm all day, and clevo rods are so beefy that you don't even need to think about them.

3500 stall is pretty high for a street car, might get a bit annoying on the freeway. I'd say go more like 2500, or keep it stock. I assume you're using a C4, in which case you should shift kit it to help it live longer and drive nicer.

Diff should be 28-spline limo. Mine will only be 25 as it's a cruiser and I don't drag race or do burnouts. Plenty of diff gears available to wake it up: 3.27, 3.45, 3.77, 4.11 which is the reason why I advise not to go too high in the stall speed. Depends if you can build your own diff. If not, bolting in a XG ute diff would give you 3.27 but probably open centre. Going up in ratio plus too high a stall would make it unbearable on the freeway. High stall will also cook your gearbox if you run it hard.

Camshafts are chosen on rpm range, so keep in mind that when you're choosing a clevo one, they're quoting the power band on a 351. In a 302, a good rule-of-thumb is to add 500 rpm to that figure. On an auto, you could go with an LSA a bit narrower, say 110-108 so you're in the meat of the torque curve when coming off stall. Choose a cam that's not too much above 0.500" lift as you don't want to stress the rockers too much. I know of a Crow cam that's around 224/224 @ 0.050", 108 LSA, and 0.507" lift that would be a good little cam for your setup.

If you want to use roller rockers, get good ones. Cheapies are worse than using stock rockers. Think about if you want to go with 7/16" studs when getting the heads machined. Clevos aren't cheap to do because of the angles involved. There are bolt-on 5/16" ones from Scorpion or Yella Terra for around $600. You'll probably need pushrods too.

If you keep the stock rockers, run a high zinc oil or moly additive.

Try and find a second hand set of extractors, as new ones are pricey. Mine were $150, new ones are up around $800.

A 600 Holley should do you for carby. 465 will be too small. Reco ones are getting hard to find as carby shops are all closing down now. New ones are pricey too. Allow $500 for that.

So... Budget:

Heads $1500
Cam/lifters $500
Roller rockers/pushrods $700 (optional)
Extractors $800 ($200 s/hand)
Carby $500
Diff rebuild $1000
Shift kit $200 (?)

It's all starting to add up!

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Yeah I didn't think they had Torque to yield bolts?
The ones on the 302 I'm doing atm, don't look like single use bolts.

Not the one I did. I had to replace them any way as some fuckwit previous mechanic lost one bolt and replaced it with a normal bolt.

Use holden head stud sealant, it’s the best stuff and the only decent thing to ever wear a holden badge.

Not the one I did. I had to replace them any way as some fuckwit previous mechanic lost one bolt and replaced it with a normal bolt.

Use holden head stud sealant, it’s the best stuff and the only decent thing to ever wear a holden badge.

It doesn’t hurt to put stud sealant on the inlet manifold bolts that go into the water jackets too.

It doesn’t hurt to put stud sealant on the inlet manifold bolts that go into the water jackets too.

With the roller 5.0 blocks all the bottom row of head bolts go into the water jacket. The top row should be blind.




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Coming along nicely!

Don’t forget to use thread sealer on the head bolts that go into the water jackets.

Get some AU spec rocker cover gaskets, they are reusable and seal perfectly, I don’t like the cork ones at all. Same with the manifold ends, just use sealer and use a bit around the water ports as well, I’m sure you are all over this though.




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I’d do AU bottom end. It’s got a better combustion shape in the piston crown, longer rods which give you better angle in the bore and more torque down low and cross bolting of the alloy sump to the mains caps. What’s not to like??
Dave is spot on with the head.
See if you can find a non vct Xr6 au motor. Better cam, valve springs and exhaust valves are 2mm bigger.

i had to chainsaw it off because off stuck bolts,new one coming monday says suits hawaii 5.0L

What’s wrong with the original timing cover?

I’d do AU bottom end. It’s got a better combustion shape in the piston crown, longer rods which give you better angle in the bore and more torque down low and cross bolting of the alloy sump to the mains caps. What’s not to like??
Dave is spot on with the head.
See if you can find a non vct Xr6 au motor. Better cam, valve springs and exhaust valves are 2mm bigger.

dizzy just pulls out and swaps for the crank angle sensor thing for coil packs.. 
depends what you are doing with it.. if you read Thoms ohc thread you'd be getting an AU bottom end with an EF XR6 head and running a bbm .. that carby look think will probably be on it's limit pretty much standard?
 
but then again, look at Campo's barra NA conversion into XF and it's making decent power NA.. 
or look at blackxt's current thread with turbo Lpg 4.0 and you'll be thinking turbo... 
then think turbo and look at the turbo crossflow times .. that's what you have now, then think you want to keep your exhaust so follow slydogs blower setup ..
 
hmm. then remember the sparkydave slogan.. keep it stock date code correct, genuine parts, don't drive it for 10yrs to keep the kms down, don't die before you get to drive it because whoever inherits it will take it to scrap because old car.. 
 
that got a bit out of hand..haha

The inlet manifold gaskets will differ for the water ports , some early 289 are small and some 302 and 351 are different. There will be 2 sets of seals for the block to middle of the inlet manifold. Most importantly, make sure the head gaskets are around the right way!

Nah thankyou. Entertaining as always. In reality the flow figures mean squat as you'll be blowing an atmosphere or better in there anyway.  Can't wait to see the track numbers. Should be good. Hope you have the cage designed.