ando76

Just noticed how thin it is around the valve guide boss area as well.  Hmm hope the test head doesn't show any surprises.  There is plenty of meat around the valve seat area but you really just want to taper that back into the original material and not go too far.  Also plenty of meat around the port face.
 
Just looking at the short turn and about 1cm up from the valve seat - I reckon that area could be tapered back a bit to lessen the radius of the short turn as it sort of dumps it at that point.  Suggestion only. 
 
On an individual runner set up you could really have some fun on the port entry and with a bigger inlet valve I reckon it would go off.  Bit of attention to the exhaust port and you would have a seriously fast car. 
 
I can't believe the detail and info I have gained by your head sectioning.  Great work.  I'm off to the shed with the diegrinder....

Cam is going to cut the Bertha test head up so I will try and get some photos.  We are using a bigger valve that yours so we are both a bit concerned about the short turn area - although cam said that it didn't sound hollow or thin on the die grinder so I think we will be right but like you say doesn't hurt to check. 
 
great stuff once again.

Bugger no gains from the throttle plate removal -seems odd given the gains found in removing the screw protrusions on the Holley carb.  Did you fill the throttle shaft with pieces of alloy - perhaps that is causing an issue. 
 
You can't beat the new manifold for consistent flow and the horsepower and torque gains that everyone that has fitted one has made.  I've made a few mods to mine and I'm taking it to Brisbane with me in December to flow test it on Bertha V2.  Should be interesting. 
 
Keep up the good work Clevo.  just tell those street stock boys that there is something special about kicking EFI cars arses with the good old x-flow - its why I persist with them. 
 
Yeah I could build a BA and do bugger all to it - fit cams and headers and an aftermarket computer and make the same, if not more power - but where is the fun in that.  Last meeting a BA with all this in it could not catch Jason with the carton of beer motor in his XF running on petrol with a 350 Holley - and I mean 350 holley - no 500 base plate - nothing.  Now that is something.  He came third behind a big dollar metho corty - and a massive dollar VZ commy.  Not a bad effort. 
 
Long live the x-flow!!!!!!

nice work - shows the need to go easy around the short turn.  good stuff. 

I'm about to build another x-flow that I am calling 'the mad scientist engine'.  I'm using up some more parts off the bench and a decent engine I was given by Jason as part payment on his new race motor.
 
The bottom end has no-name flat tops at .040 and has a few balancing marks on the 250 rods but not on the crank as best as I can tell - It came with a lightened flywheel as well so I'm going to piece this all together with a crow 619 hydraulic I have here and some clevite anti-pump up lifters.  I'll do one of my sumps, oil pumps and I'll modify my girdle/tray at the front so that it can be used in a street car that runs a sway bar. 
 
Comp will be around 11:1 (I need to cc the head) and I reckon it would be a fun package making power from 2600-5500 so you may have to lift your RPM ceiling LOL. 
 
I'll do a build thread on it and then sell it at the end as I have seriously way too many x-flows here. Maybe I'll chuck it in the ute and run it in on the dyno and do the aforementioned extractor back to back comparison. 

Well I just made 334HP at 6000rpm with my modified set of pacemakers on a flat tappet cam so fuk it I'm not even bothering fitting the others.  LOL 

I'm about to build another x-flow that I am calling 'the mad scientist engine'.  I'm using up some more parts off the bench and a decent engine I was given by Jason as part payment on his new race motor.
 
The bottom end has no-name flat tops at .040 and has a few balancing marks on the 250 rods but not on the crank as best as I can tell - It came with a lightened flywheel as well so I'm going to piece this all together with a crow 619 hydraulic I have here and some clevite anti-pump up lifters.  I'll do one of my sumps, oil pumps and I'll modify my girdle/tray at the front so that it can be used in a street car that runs a sway bar. 
 
Comp will be around 11:1 (I need to cc the head) and I reckon it would be a fun package making power from 2600-5500 so you may have to lift your RPM ceiling LOL. 
 
I'll do a build thread on it and then sell it at the end as I have seriously way too many x-flows here. Maybe I'll chuck it in the ute and run it in on the dyno and do the aforementioned extractor back to back comparison. 

I'm about to build another x-flow that I am calling 'the mad scientist engine'.  I'm using up some more parts off the bench and a decent engine I was given by Jason as part payment on his new race motor.
 
The bottom end has no-name flat tops at .040 and has a few balancing marks on the 250 rods but not on the crank as best as I can tell - It came with a lightened flywheel as well so I'm going to piece this all together with a crow 619 hydraulic I have here and some clevite anti-pump up lifters.  I'll do one of my sumps, oil pumps and I'll modify my girdle/tray at the front so that it can be used in a street car that runs a sway bar. 
 
Comp will be around 11:1 (I need to cc the head) and I reckon it would be a fun package making power from 2600-5500 so you may have to lift your RPM ceiling LOL. 
 
I'll do a build thread on it and then sell it at the end as I have seriously way too many x-flows here. Maybe I'll chuck it in the ute and run it in on the dyno and do the aforementioned extractor back to back comparison. 

Well I just made 334HP at 6000rpm with my modified set of pacemakers on a flat tappet cam so fuk it I'm not even bothering fitting the others.  LOL 

Well I just made 334HP at 6000rpm with my modified set of pacemakers on a flat tappet cam so fuk it I'm not even bothering fitting the others.  LOL 

Hey it's a forum bro and we will not all agree unless it's a question on how much of a cock XrGlen is...So keep your ideas coming,no one is forcing there views we are all discussing.Just shows how people do things differently to get the same results is all.This thread has opened alot of eyes about what works and what people use which was the hope/intention of the thread too...but it is still open to V8 turbo stuff so lets hope them boys join in too cos my ute is a boring POS to talk about for too long.
 
Wazzy's run a solid cam,don't actually know cam spec's but you would think 600 lift 275 duration atleast,I think it still runs Paceys and a 2.5"race exhaust?,head by Barbagello (yes the guy who doe's Pro Stock engines/cars) 13.5 mechanical injected 6"rod ACL slugs,crank trigger MSD 4600 stall 4.11 geared XE.Correct me if I got anything wrong Glenn.
 
Wazzy supplied my guide plates and tray (till I went custom sump which meant new tray) and a fuck load of knowledge.Very smart articulate man but still a QLDer so I can't rep him too much. 

Trust me ando wazzys engine in a cortina would kick all our asses.....LOL
 
Rob just go the custom route mate it would be a shame to put some off the shelf extractors on after all the custom work that has gone into the ute mate

Well that's it. Only one way to work this out.  I'm going to back to back these extractors
 

 
with the modified (extended secondaries) pacemaker extractors
 

 
 
I've got on the burnout beast on the dyno.  I'll just modify the collector on the 6-3-1 extractors as it is god ugly.  Anyone want to lay bets????
 
 

See that feeling through the seat of the pants seems to contradict the theory that the 6-3-1's are better in the top end.  If the 6-2-1's are still making torque at the high rpm then that means that the HP ceiling is also raised.  Anyone that's spent anytime on a dyno knows that HP takes over when torque drops off.  Hmmmm me thinks two sets of pipes back to back on dyno and track only way to settle this. Time and Money once again. 
 
See how the secondaries stop short on the 4.0l set.  I reckon that has more to do with ease of fitment up to the Cat convertor than actual exhaust design.  I'd like to see a bit more length in that secondary before they meet the collector - especially as they have all just done a tight 90 to get to the collector.
 
One area where pacemaker are well ahead of the others is the pipe over cone design.  when I up my secondary pipe sizing I take the secondaries to the exhaust shop to have the ends expanded so that you get that same pipe over cone thing happening. 

This is exactly why I am trying an X pipe on the roller cam engine.  6 into 2 into an X pipe.  Look at the configuration of an off the shelf set of extractors.  Look at the firing order. Correlate that to the extractor design.  Pulse - pulse.  Exactly the same as a V8 and X pipes have been proven to make more power on V8's for years.  Just look at Vizard's exhaust studies. 
 
Call me mad - many have - but I'm cool with that.

This is exactly why I am trying an X pipe on the roller cam engine.  6 into 2 into an X pipe.  Look at the configuration of an off the shelf set of extractors.  Look at the firing order. Correlate that to the extractor design.  Pulse - pulse.  Exactly the same as a V8 and X pipes have been proven to make more power on V8's for years.  Just look at Vizard's exhaust studies. 
 
Call me mad - many have - but I'm cool with that.

how sweet does that sound!! and lift those front wheels and gone.  Having seen this car in the flesh and heard it sit at idle it truly is an amazing beast, driven and owned by a top bloke to boot.
Yeah cammed up LS1's run as quick but this is old school technology going seriously fast.  Perhaps we all just smash a certain magazine with emails demanding a write up???

how sweet does that sound!! and lift those front wheels and gone.  Having seen this car in the flesh and heard it sit at idle it truly is an amazing beast, driven and owned by a top bloke to boot.
Yeah cammed up LS1's run as quick but this is old school technology going seriously fast.  Perhaps we all just smash a certain magazine with emails demanding a write up???

how sweet does that sound!! and lift those front wheels and gone.  Having seen this car in the flesh and heard it sit at idle it truly is an amazing beast, driven and owned by a top bloke to boot.
Yeah cammed up LS1's run as quick but this is old school technology going seriously fast.  Perhaps we all just smash a certain magazine with emails demanding a write up???

how sweet does that sound!! and lift those front wheels and gone.  Having seen this car in the flesh and heard it sit at idle it truly is an amazing beast, driven and owned by a top bloke to boot.
Yeah cammed up LS1's run as quick but this is old school technology going seriously fast.  Perhaps we all just smash a certain magazine with emails demanding a write up???

how sweet does that sound!! and lift those front wheels and gone.  Having seen this car in the flesh and heard it sit at idle it truly is an amazing beast, driven and owned by a top bloke to boot.
Yeah cammed up LS1's run as quick but this is old school technology going seriously fast.  Perhaps we all just smash a certain magazine with emails demanding a write up???

that's not good Jason.  I know where there is a really good cylinder head in Brisbane that is almost done - but it owes me too much now.  lol.  I hope you get it sorted man.  hard luck. 

Hey fellas, I was pulling down a 4L OHC head today and I thought I would chuck an intake valve in the crossflow port I did for this thread and run another flow test. The 4L valve is a 1.84in single angle job, so this test is with just the valve change and that is all.
So just to recap.
Test 1: stock C1A port and chamber with stock 1.8in valve
Test 2: modified port, stock C1A chamber with stock 1.8in valve
Test 3: modified port and chamber with stock 1.8in valve
Test 4: same as test 3 but with 1.84in valve
 
                     test1        test2        test3          test4
50                 29.4         30.95       36.08        41.03
100               54            58.34       63.15        67.37
150               77.4         85.6         92.5          98.06
200               98.5         108.98     121.92      130.04
250               121.2       131.56     149.84      155.95
300               141.4       151.05     165.2        171.62
350               162.9       168.79     178.97      179.27
400               177.7       180.13     190.17      193.44
450               184.4       189.02     198.22      200.67
500               186.2       197.22     202.96      209.85
550               189.1       203          207.93      216.8
600                               214.2       213.98      209.59
650                               213.44     213.4        210.02
700                               212.16     212.2
 
So the bigger valve shows good gains in the low and mid lift even compared to test 3, the port has a bit of a stall between 300 and 350 but recovers well after that. The biggest thing that changed was the sound of the port and the air velocity in the port also, the port became noticeably louder from 400 thou up, the velocity was skyrocketing also. My opinion of this is that now the small cross sectional area of the port is becoming a problem, remember that this port has the stock cross section, the port is now suffering from a sonic choke, this is when the airspeed is so high that it becomes turbulant and starts to actually flow less as the results show, when the lift goes over 550 the flow goes backwards and the port starts to scream. At 550 lift the airspeed in the smallest part of the port is reaching over 370 feet per second, I want it down to around 330 FPS at the max lift point which is 550 for this engine, sonic choke starts to become a factor from 340 FPS and up and this is now happening at around 400 lift.
Now the silver lining, in my opinion what this is telling me is that the bigger valve is allowing the port to flow more air and that the short turn and bowl are still stable, that is why the flow is still increasing upto 550 lift even tho the airspeed in the minimal cross sectional area is over 370 FPS so by increasing the port diameter by a little I will be able to reduce the airspeed to an acceptable speed and increase flow at the same time. 
Looking at the results there has been some big gains from the stock port to were it's at now using the small cross section, I will start a new port to suit the bigger valve on Monday and let you guys know how it goes, I think I will develop this port more for a drag racing engine and show you guys the difference between the 2.

a drop down base air cleaner may help.  You can also lower the engine significantly with a custom sump and cutting the lower engine mounts that fix to the chassis.  You would be surprised at how much you can get the engine down with these two mods.  you can also elongate the engine mounts to the block and get the engine a bit lower again.  all these little things add up and may well give you the clearance you need. 

grimmy you have some seriously big gonads my friend.  Most cam manufactures recommend run in on outer springs with seat pressures over 120lb.  I would think that at 140 you are pushing the envelope and run the risk of wiping a lobe at some stage.  but hey if you get away with it all well and good.