weiand 174 supercharger 302w

[xwroo 348]

Time has come in my XW build to rebuild the motor (302w). The plan has always been just a full rebuild  with all the basic aftermarket parts (carb,intake,cam,headers). I always had the intention on bolting on a weiand 174 supercharger in the future and I thought why not do it while the motor is pulled down. Have done a fair bit of research and going on what I have read a weiand 174 suits what I want it for, but just finding it hard to find info on what is the minimal or basic that has to be done to support the supercharger. Just got a few questions.

 

- Has anyone had a personal had this combo and how did it go?

 

- What in the minimal/basic I have to do to the motor to run the supercharger?

 

-  What compression ratio will suit and how to achieve that ratio (head gaskets, pistons, etc)? 

 

I'm not after a dyno killer or a 9sec street car, just something that has good low-mid range power and still very streetable.

 

Any help or advice is appreciate

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

I have read much on these suckers,weiand say 8.5.1 is the good ratio for a street app with 9.1 being about the most and 7.5 the least,the kit comes with the largest snout pulley which will give you not much boost but smart buyers get a few smaller ones while ordering their kit,a nice street combo will work ok with just the std pulley,weiand say will give 40% more power and its probly spot on,our dollar is starting to climb and im also waiting for it to go up to import one from the usa,price motorsports do a kit to suit a cleveland,but after spending $5000 on it,you wonder why you didnt just put a set of the latest alloy heads and roller cam and roller rockers and your probly gunna get the same result,

[NZXD 2,328]

Time has come in my XW build to rebuild the motor (302w). The plan has always been just a full rebuild  with all the basic aftermarket parts (carb,intake,cam,headers). I always had the intention on bolting on a weiand 174 supercharger in the future and I thought why not do it while the motor is pulled down. Have done a fair bit of research and going on what I have read a weiand 174 suits what I want it for, but just finding it hard to find info on what is the minimal or basic that has to be done to support the supercharger. Just got a few questions.

 

- Has anyone had a personal had this combo and how did it go?

 

- What in the minimal/basic I have to do to the motor to run the supercharger?

 

-  What compression ratio will suit and how to achieve that ratio (head gaskets, pistons, etc)? 

 

I'm not after a dyno killer or a 9sec street car, just something that has good low-mid range power and still very streetable.

 

Any help or advice is appreciate

 

Mate go to the Holley website they have all the info on there. Plus you can read all the recommendations and instructions.

 

With a mild 302w, mild cam, 750 blower Carb and high flow mechanical fuel pump Holley state 450hp on low boost.

 

I've thought about it too, but other stuff always gets in the way.

[xwroo 348]

I personal think its a great way to go providing you do everything right and keep the boost and rpm low. NZXD when you say stuff gets in the way you talk engine or life?

[NZXD 2,328]

I personal think its a great way to go providing you do everything right and keep the boost and rpm low. NZXD when you say stuff gets in the way you talk engine or life?

 

Sorry, life gets in the way.

 

Plus the bonnet will too haha

[xwroo 348]

I hear ya. They do say the bonnet may need some work to make it fit but I've some xw-xy with them and most of them fitted under the bonnet with no cutting or need for boonet scoops.

[NZXD 2,328]

I hear ya. They do say the bonnet may need some work to make it fit but I've some xw-xy with them and most of them fitted under the bonnet with no cutting or need for boonet scoops.

 

That would be a bonus if it does. Won't on an XD, does the 302w sit lower in the XW bay?

 

I think for me it would be a good choice, bolts on, my fuel pump and system is up to it. Just need blower carb, blower, and an ignition box to retard timing to be best out of it and then tuning.

[xwroo 348]

To be honest I couldn't tell you but the windsor's do leave a lot more room in the engine compared to the Cleveland's. To be on the safe side I'm going to leave the bonnet in hi-fill primer to I work out what I'm going to do. I'm not looking for massive power but bolt it on is easy power.

[NZXD 2,328]

To be honest I couldn't tell you but the windsor's do leave a lot more room in the engine compared to the Cleveland's. To be on the safe side I'm going to leave the bonnet in hi-fill primer to I work out what I'm going to do. I'm not looking for massive power but bolt it on is easy power.

 

Yeah my engine bay is half empty with the Windsor in it.

 

If you do it let us know how it goes. My XD is sitting is secure storage in NZ and I'm in OZ, hopefully sooner rather than later we will be reunited.

[xwroo 348]

I'm just doing the final touches on the body work, then I'll be starting on the motor with a compression test and going from there. I'll be putting a build thread up soon so I'll keep ya updated.

[NZXD 2,328]

I have just done a ton of study on these over the weekend. There's also a video on Engine Masters with David from Roadkill using a 174 on a 363w. Added basically 150hp but was heavily overdriven and would cause huge heat issues.

 

Priced up all the parts required and seems cheaper to buy in NZ for some reason.

 

The Holley website tells you exactly how to set it up and what is required. It's a good read.

 

Looks to be about a 80-100 hp gain with a 7-9psi setup on a mild motor.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

i remember back in the 80's B and M came out with a mini blower to suit the clevo and many others,they are so rare to find these days.

[slydog 7,873]

 

So you can have a blower that makes HP or a blower that looks like it makes HP. 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

some big carbies they are using there ! remember the weiand was made for a 289-302 cube engine and might suffer on a larger c.i. set-up,i would rather have the low down power.

[slydog 7,873]

Big carbies...these were on a 302 cube Windsor.A pair of sand cast 1050 Dominators.Budd Moore was the smartest engineer of the 60's70s and his work only got copied by big manufacturers years later.   

 

 

Remember it's not the size of the carbs it's how you use them. And no it's the size of the blower,design and belt slip thats the issue here.If it was gilmer driven the result would be better for the roots blower but it would still loose,especially if you put a gilmer on the Paxton unit.

 

So it goe's back to if you want a blower that makes hp or 1 that looks like it doe's.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

i remember the budd moore box manifold,it was very sucsessful.

[xwroo 348]

Like I've said I'm not after massive hp gain, low-mid range power and toque cause it is a street car and I really don't like the look of the Paxton charger.

[slydog 7,873]

Neither will supply massive a hp gain but the Paxton was highest.A NAT ASP engine can make more power with the same money as said above.That engine made 460ish @ the crank then 570 with a blower.Shows them blowers are compromise @ best. If I see a car with a blower it is making a statement and in this case 1 it can't back up.With a gilmer drive on the paxton it could do OK though. 

 

It's big money for some extra torque that won't be used as it's only a street car as you say but again it's your car so do do as you wish.

[xwroo 348]

Thanks for that see where you are coming from.

[XPT 673]

Only problem with a centrifugal blower is that boost rises in direct proportion to revs meaning you have to rev the motor hard to reap the benefits. The roots blower gave a 140hp increase in peak hp with a massive gain in torque which peaks earlier than the centrifugal blower and has quite a flat torque curve until it falls away probably due to the inefficiency of the roots blower. It would be quite good on the street and be better everywhere in the rev range except up top.

I'd go a turbo before a centrifugal blower (or a roots blower for that matter) as you would have much better mid range torque with the top end to match, provided you have correctly sized the turbo of course.

You don't drive with the bonnet up and looks don't matter especially for an under bonnet setup. If you were going a 6/71 look then fair enough but for the money a turbo craps all over any supercharger and you can maintain good drivability. Check this out:

[slydog 7,873]

Don't drive with the bonnet up  LOL 

[brianj 48]

A little late to the party, but I have one of the 174 blowers on a 302. It was very simple to install. My motor is a 9.0 c.r., cast piston, all factory motor. I welded the slots on the Duraspark mechanical advance up, so the slots are .410". This restricted the mechanical advance to 10 degrees. The springs on the advance are extremely light, allowing full advance by 1500RPM. My initial timing is 18 degrees. Basically, this lets me start the engine without trouble, but as soon as the motor is running, it acts like the distributor is locked at 28 degrees. It has a mechanical secondary 750cfm holley on it, with a boost referenced power valve.

 

And that's it.

 

No plumbing for the intake, no blow through carb,it's still using the mechanical fuel pump, etct. Very simple. It makes a ridiculous amount of torque, and is hella fun on the street. The only problems are, you must use high octane fuel (not race fuel, but not cheap crap, either) and you will have a very hard time finding traction with the torque.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

so what sought of power valve did you use ? 

[brianj 48]

It is a normal power valve. Mine happens to be a 10.5, but every motor might need something different. The biggest difference is that the original port in the base of the carb that sends the vacuum to the power valve is plugged, and a new port is drilled through the body of the carb, into the power valve chamber. You then run a vacuum line from the new port in the carb, to a vacuum source UNDER the blower. A roots type blower always has vacuum under the carb, which will keep the power valve closed, and can make you go lean under boost. By referencing the vacuum signal under the blower instead of under the carb, it will always open the power valve as soon as the vacuum drops. You can buy carbs already boost referenced, or you can do a web search on how to do it yourself. It's pretty simple to do, and you can do it yourself far cheaper than buying one already referenced.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,642]

yeah those 750 boost ref holleys are not cheap.