SHEET METAL MANIFOLD

[slydog 7,873]

Drag car = Methanol

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

Methanol, good for hi comp N/A engines to 3000hp+ supercharged outlaw hemi's

[ando76 4,354]

Ok. Just a word of advice from someone who actually builds meth crossflows as part of his living. Don't go over 13:1 compression. In fact if you plan on giving it a rev, go lower. Like 11.9-12.5. Why? Because if you go higher you will not be able to add any real timing, but more importantly you will tear the corner out of number 1 cylinder bore. It wil crack across to the water pump area first and then it will crack and take out the whole top drivers side corner of the block.

 

Seen it happen way to many times to be core shift or bore size related. They are just a bit thin in that area for really high cylinder pressure and high piston speed. Don't forget that one. 3.909 stroke. A piston in a crossflow doing 6000rpm travels a lot further than a chev or 302 Windsor at 6000.

 

Meth is cool but e85 is the go for the street. Both add torque in spades.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

i have several heads here to play with,e1,e2,and the xe one,and then pistons to suit when i decide a combo.

[slydog 7,873]

Ideally you should start with a cyl head that needs material removed to make your compression "window" for your combo. This is part of the reason why lots use the C1-C2 style heads cos you need to shape the chamber for flow and compression needs. All this is pointless without the correct and needed seat cuts and valve job and then port work but a good head porter will be all over this.

 

For this you can't go past Cam @ Engine Engineering or Marty White @ John White Race Engines.Both leaders in fast xflow technology and performance.   

[broken-wheel 659]

I would start with a D head or the E2

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

im not sure what my xe has, it's a 82 leaded one.

[wagoon 2,429]

If it doesnt have anything between the 1st and 2nd inlet ports then it is known as a unmarked head. You should be able to find what the standard cc of a unmarked head is with a search on here.

 

Edit: Thanks Broken-wheel couldn't for the life of me remember "unmarked" head

[wagoon 2,429]

If I was going to do an NA engine I would start with the heads Sly suggested. If I was going boost I would start with what broken-wheel suggested. Thats my thought and as you can see there is more than 1 way to build a crossflow.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

I was on you tube last night and these crazy spanish or mexicans were into these ols falcons from the 60.s putting highly worked i6's in em check this motor i took a pic of its probly a 200 0r 250 pre crossy

[broken-wheel 659]

unmarked heads have the biggest chamber. E2 an D have really good chamber design, there is 5 degrees worth of timing between the unmarked and D head

 

it's cheaper to just buy the aussie speed manifold and a good carb then fuck around with sheet metal and webers, keep in mind some of the smog webers are absolute shit house, the 2nd butterfly don't even open up fully and tuning is whack 

 

best thing you can do to a xflow is to git it some exhaust, tow cam, new lifters and rebuild the weber, all under $1500 then diff gears, the Lane gears are good, 3.27 and LSD

[slydog 7,873]

I was on you tube last night and these crazy spanish or mexicans were into these ols falcons from the 60.s putting highly worked i6's in em check this motor i took a pic of its probly a 200 0r 250 pre crossy

 

Argentinians...yes old log engines. 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

some really crazy sounding engine's

[broken-wheel 659]

Yes flat tops, zero deck, 50ish cc head, for 13:1. "Hello Methanol".

13:1 is perfectly fine with premium unleaded with a 300 cam, been there done that, unusable on the street with manual transmission 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

im pretty sure i will go for 5.7 dish from precision ,the e2 head or 48cc to 50cc and zero deck will give easy 11'5'1. pump 98 will be fine ,everytime someone throw's there 2 cents worth in i grab the compression calcuator and yup it's fun !

[broken-wheel 659]

Ok. Just a word of advice from someone who actually builds meth crossflows as part of his living. Don't go over 13:1 compression. In fact if you plan on giving it a rev, go lower. Like 11.9-12.5. Why? Because if you go higher you will not be able to add any real timing, but more importantly you will tear the corner out of number 1 cylinder bore. It wil crack across to the water pump area first and then it will crack and take out the whole top drivers side corner of the block.

 

Seen it happen way to many times to be core shift or bore size related. They are just a bit thin in that area for really high cylinder pressure and high piston speed. Don't forget that one. 3.909 stroke. A piston in a crossflow doing 6000rpm travels a lot further than a chev or 302 Windsor at 6000.

 

Meth is cool but e85 is the go for the street. Both add torque in spades.

 

been there with E85 and to be honest it's not worth the hassle, the xlfow heads are fucking good heads. People always aim to give the motor stupid timing because they are stuck in the past with the old iron heads on both chevs, fords etc. Once you have alloy heads and canted valves and a good port/chamber design then fuck timing just give it compression! Timing is for heads that have shit flow and shit combustion chamber, point in case look at the LS1 heads, nobody throws more than 22 at them! unless you're Daddy Dave and get 200hp from 2 degree of timing

 

imho best combo would be the C2 head with flat top pistons, zero dec and 12.5:1 on a nice .600 cam with about 290 total duration and 750DP on the aussie speed manifold, it will piss in 300hp at the wheels and be a lot more fun than a higher comp E85 motor

[ando76 4,354]

Gee I don't know. I just got a set of those LS heads in at work. They have a real hemi style chamber with a C2 style inlet swirl. The runners are pretty bloody good. Exhaust could be a bit better but nothing the die-grinder won't fix. Oh and those LS things are near on 10.5:1 comp standard apparently. But yeah they do hate timing for sure, but man they make solid power with a relatively small 234/240 & 620" cam. I tuned a straight gas one with the package recently and it impressed the shit out of me. No wonder everyone loves them.

 

Not me but- I'll stick with my crossy's. Funny you should mention that combo. It's similar to what I'm building atm for a customer. Just with 10.5:1 comp and .584" lift.

[broken-wheel 659]

yeah that's the combo i'm doing now after XF "caved" the roof in, 400 HP in an Xflow is not nice on the street no matter what anyone else says, not in a manual so not going that way again, i'm following the crowd and building a C4 combo in an XE sedan body which will eventually get a clevo.

 

back on topic:

I reckon the cheapest option to get a cool induction would be to use a J pipe with flanges and bolt on 6 of the XW strombergs, they are a single barrel and big enough, piss easy to tune and fab a throttle rod, the stromberg's are like $35 each? 6x J pipe bends and flanges about $200, i recon if you try hard enough you get it done for under 1k

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

i can get my hands on an efi intake for almost nothing ,i will grab it tomorrow and start to wonder if it can be cut or modded to suit 6 x carby's.

[ando76 4,354]

Machine he top plenum flat. Fit 2 350 hollers side on, on top. Cut big hole in bonnet and after making a throttle linkage go out and hold on

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

i already have the spare bonnet to cut up,i had this idea for the exhaust like a top fuel car,with 6 pipes coming out the other side of the bonnet ,would match the 6 intake trumpets.

[broken-wheel 659]

another option for injection is to go for the Ducati ITB's, they are 48mm, have easy to setup throttle linkage and 2 ITB's are like $130 USD so for under 1k you should have the complete shit bolted up to an xflow then worry about ECU's etc

 

I was looking at the ITB option and Webers but the price is too high and can't be re-used if you move up as in the webers won't fit a clevo, nor the ITB's so not interested

what was interesting is that EFI hardware have this rating:

48mm - 64HP/48KW* per throttle

 

so in a perfect world 64*6 is 384HP now we know you can get the VE above 100% with a decent cam/exhaust combo so with a 48mm throttle you'll get 410HP max which is what I've seen Mossy get on his motor on the dyno. It looks like his Webers are 50mm, can't judge from the video but yeah food for thought

 

Imho for little money going multi carb is not an easy option as just tuning two holley's is going to be a nightmare, the Webers are easy to tune as they have individual throats but the 350H don't so you'd have to make shift something, imho it's going to be a half arsed job and not worth it unless you;re a fab gun and can fab 3 J pipes going into a small plenum for 1x 350 and repeat for the other 3 cyl  but then you'd still be cheaper and probably ahead with the Aussie Speed manifold and a 4 barrel on top

 

I've tested this Aussie Speed Manifold and once you port it it's not a bad piece of kit, it really starts to flow and outflows the port if you are inclined to go that far. Mark said not to port the 4barrel manifold but I think he is wrong there, the shape of the manifold makes it look like a huge plenum which is much better than the Cain etc. so you can open up the ports and let it breath and you still keep ok distribution. He did a good job on designing this thing.

 

For under 1k you can setup an Aussie Speed and 4bbl (2nd hand and rebuilt) and there is no way you can get the same HP from anything else for the same money, period. Lets not kid ourselves  

 

also with custom ITB's etc. you'll end up having to spend a bomb on filtration etc.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,321]

Hmmmmm the DU-CROSSY