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Panko

Panko's Mk1 Escort (Round 2)

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Keep in mind that even though the KA engine is Kent based, very little, if any, of the engine is of any use on an Escort Kent engine.
They're a Spanish-built unit am I right? Valencia rings a bell. They'd likely be a metric motor too, but could be wrong

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10 minutes ago, Outback Jack said:

2L pinto conversion would of been heaps cheaper even with 4speed they are great fun. Can even get twin cam heads for them.
As the old saying goes. "No substitute for Cubic Inches".


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yeah but ive said this before. Im not cutting the shell to make it fit. and to be honest, the OHC Pinto are an ok engine. but they are surprisingly hard to balance when you start modifying them. believe it or not, a 1600 is easier to balance, will rev harder than a pinto, and can make more power than a pinto with the same money put into either engine. and i dont need to cut the body shell. 

 

This is why im not keen on doing a zetec into this car either. it means no cutting. remember that I am modifying my 5 speed gearbox to suit the shell, rather than the other way around. simple, im not cutting this car to make things fit. 

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You do what you want Panko.
I was doing up Escorts 20-25 years ago.
The only Ford escort 1600 that revs harder than a Pinto 2L is the 1600 twin cam, because it's overhead cam.
To get around radiator mods, you just move the engine mounts back 2".

2L Pinto is a beautiful motor, very easy to wake up with just a cam and nice carbs.
I've been there done that with Eskies.
I suggest you read Steve Vizards books on 2L Pintos, will change your life.

I understand your not wanting to mod the escort too much, mods for 2L are minimal.
Was just trying to save you a lot of time and money.


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3 hours ago, Outback Jack said:

2L Pinto is a beautiful motor, very easy to wake up with just a cam and nice carbs

 

i've only been in stock 2 litre cortinas (3) and all three of them had GRUNT! (the 3.77 diff helps) but they took off quick and pulled hard and one was an auto.
 

i'd be torn also on what to fit, (same issue with the gemini i have) open the bonnet and stock looking is more appealing. i have no idea how well the 1600 kent can go, but if it's already a fun car with 1300 it's probably plenty with some work.

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I’ve had many 2 litre cortinas one 2 litre escort (mk2) and quite a few 1100/1300/1600 escorts.
Joy of getting my license in nz near the crossover of jdm stuff taking over from British shitheaps.
The 2 litres go well, very well and used to be a cheap upgrade.
The 1600s aren’t really that much better than a 1300 IMO.
The 1100s are a hoot, they make about 10hp on a good day...

They say nothing is more fun than driving a slow car fast. How slow do you wanna go fast?

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I have no idea exactly what is required to fit the 2L but I can add this, if you slide the engine back on the mounts that's easy enough to do with offset brackets. However, there isn't any more room to advance the shifter location and have it in the factory hole. The conversion moves the shifter forward 75mm for a standard engine placement and that brings the shifter "box" as far as you can get without cutting into the trans case itself. Any further and you would be halfway through the linkages etc so that's not an option either.

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Would need an engineer's to fit into a mk1, so more expense.

I'm wondering if there's a way of mixing and matching Kent bits to make a nice little gun engine. The old Formula Ford crowd would know a thing or two about getting the 1600 to boogie, but without the strict constraints of the class. They're a pretty tough engine too apparently, and many competition engines were based on its architecture. Cosworth BDA, FVA, lots more.... even the V8 DFV F1 engine were all based on the Kent design.

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12 hours ago, gerg said:

Would need an engineer's to fit into a mk1, so more expense.

I'm wondering if there's a way of mixing and matching Kent bits to make a nice little gun engine. The old Formula Ford crowd would know a thing or two about getting the 1600 to boogie, but without the strict constraints of the class. They're a pretty tough engine too apparently, and many competition engines were based on its architecture. Cosworth BDA, FVA, lots more.... even the V8 DFV F1 engine were all based on the Kent design.

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I would argue (and be confidant of winning) that an engineers report is not required.

The MK1 was available from the factory as a 2.0l Pinto, and this is easily proven.

There were some factory Australian delivered mk1 RS2000's.

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As i sort of tried to say above. 
like for like, and this is coming from watching an engine builder (also fellow RSOCV club member) who specialises in building fast escorts, a 1600 on a low budget can produce more power, and rev better than a pinto with the same low budget spent on it. 
This is a guy who builds them with his own custom cam grinds, and engine dynos each engine and tunes them before giving them back to the customer. 
 

a stock 1600 (for arguments sake Ghia spec with 32/36 factory) vs a 2L Ghia Pinto (same carby) makes not much less power than the pinto. 
 

stick a mild cam, some basic porting, balance, side draft carbs into a 1600, and its making some solid power. 
 

its been proven by said engine builder, Pintos take more time, money and work to make the same sort of gains than it does a 1600. 
the 1600 is also a lot lighter than a Pinto. 
and it is a stronger engine. 
 

An old school trick was to stick 1300 pistons in a 1600. I have a set of 1300 pistons here. It raises the comp ratio significantly. 
 

I wasn’t going to explain why shifting the Pinto back on the mounts Doesn’t work, but Rod already explained it for me. 
It also would be mighty close to the heater bubble, if it were to clear at all, when shifted back on the mounts. They are a long engine. 
 

as for engineers, yeah wouldn’t need it. 
 

But there would be expense in upgrading brakes. Im pretty sure a Pinto wont fit with the original Mk1 booster like it is. Or if it does, the headers would be mighty close to the booster arm that bolts to the firewall. 

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I will never change your mind about putting a 1600 in Panko, it's your car and your money, so go for it.

 

I don't know who your 'expert' is but I have pulled a 1300 out of a Mark 1 72 escort 2 door and bolted a 2L Pinto and Cortina gearbox straight in. No mods.

I did have to move the radiator forwards but it was minor work.

Stock diff, stock brakes, stock shocks.

 

Later when I upgraded the power we decided to move the motor and box back 2 inches to pull the motor more behind the front wheels to improve handling/ weight distribution. Cleared the bubble easy.

Guards were rolled and fibreglassed by me and 13's and 235 Eagers went on.

That was a budget build.

TP-1 pinto cam, polished and ported head running a 350 holley. Stock bottom.

Made over 250RWHP on first dyno run.

Was like a big go-cart.

I did all the work myself except tailshaft and got help from a REAL escort expert when we moved the motor and box back 2".

That car ran extractors (2L Capri ones, heated and bent to fit) no problem , cut at the collector and 3" pipe and super turbo muffler.

The guy who helped me had a Twin Cam lotus 1600 MK1 and Rallye wide body,

and was the go to guy for rally and track racing escorts. He built some beasts.

Was a pleasure to know him and he helped me source my 2L head from an ex Wanneroo raceway track car. (Now Barbagellos).

My Escort would chase down my mates Rotarys 12A extended port RX3 and 13B bridge ported R100.

In the corners I was all over them.

It went to Ravenswood drags back in the day and would wind the needle off the speedo.

I also owned a 79 2L Escort Panelvan that was no slouch and ran truck valves in the head.

So I think I know a lil about Eskies.

 

 

 

 

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more progress on the car. Back panel is in, but not welded. just getting things all setup before being welded in. 

 

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more little imperfections being sorted out.

 

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factory creases from panel and body joins being smoothed. 

 

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tonight after hours, we made a start on the underside of the car. got most of it done and prepped. (this was after only a short amount of time) 

Awaiting a conclusion as to how far Mark wants me to take the underside. Or rather, how far I think I should go with the underside of the car. given we got so much of it cleaned and back to bare metal tonight, id imagine another solid day and it will be ready to go underneath. 

 

tTHQNzU.jpg

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Small update. 

 

I got the gearbox stripped down to an empty case, and then cleaned it and put the case, extension  housing back together. 

 

I also split the 1300 and 4 speed, and took the bell housing over and bolted it onto the 5 speed case. 

 

Before the end of the week, ill have the spare 1300 block and 5 speed box delivered to Mark so they can fit the driveline and move the gearbox mounts on the body. 

 

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I dont have anymore progress photos of the car, but the car is getting very close to being painted. 

 

We finished cleaning and prepping the underside of the car. Bonnet is ready to go. 

 

Mark is hoping to have it painted before easter. His painter goes on leave for the month of April, with a temporary painter coming in to only do basic insurance work. 

If the car isn't painted by Easter, then it will be May before it gets into the spray booth. It doesn't bother me in the slightest if it gets delayed, it would give me more time to get other things sorted for the car. 

 

I picked up the new windscreen for the car today. 

 

I also took delivery of a pair of NOS "hockey stick" chrome trims, because mine were beyond repairing. 

 

I also have a pair of NOS Hella H4 headlights . 

 

When I started this, I honestly dont think i was expecting the build to go to the extent it has, and i didn't think there would be so many new parts fitted. 

 

My problem is, I dont know when to stop spending money on new parts 😬

 

 

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1 hour ago, Panko said:

My problem is, I dont know when to stop spending money on new parts 😬

probably a good time to stop is when you run out of money or DON'T NEED the new parts,.. however, i'm a big fan for having good spares especially if rare.. never know when you might need them

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1 hour ago, deankdx said:

probably a good time to stop is when you run out of money or DON'T NEED the new parts,.. however, i'm a big fan for having good spares especially if rare.. never know when you might need them


ha yeah well there is that. 
i am tracking everything I spend thus far. 
Depending on Mark’s final bill, im going to be pretty close to the budget i had from insurance money. Im happy to go a couple of $k over, but we will see. 
keep in mind the list of things i had to do on it, were desirable upgrades, not necessarily a need, but certainly make the car better kind of thing

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I have a 1600 for the car :D 

 

So i picked up a 1600 from a club member. It was an unknown engine, that he had sitting in his garage for about 5 years. He had never used it. 
He let me take the engine without paying and let me comp test it etc. 

 

It had 120psi on number 1, 2 and 4. 3 was showing nothing 😕 

I swapped the head for a spare 1300 head i had sitting in the shed. Picked up 120psi on number 3 and 2 but 1 & 4 now showed zero 😂 the head i put on was the old head id pulled off the 1300. The 1300 gained compression when i swapped that head off. 
 

The bottom end in the 1600 has been rebuilt. I couldn’t make out the difference in part numbers, so the pistons are either 0.30” or 0.60” oversized. Bores are clean and smooth, no lip or scoring. 
Next stage is to get the 1600 head rebuilt, maybe some porting work too, and run a full gasket and seal kit through the engine. Ill also be looking at the camshaft to see if its stock or warmed up. 

 

120psi isn’t fantastic by any means, but considering from basic testing the loss in comp appears to mostly in the head, and the 1300 only had 90-100psi, this engine should be a comfortable upgrade even if it isn’t the best compression. 
 

it also came with another complete 4 speed and short shifter fitted. The gearbox feels better than mine, so i may end up keeping it and selling my 4 speed. 
 

my test bench, aka trailer 😂 
 

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1600 head off, 1300 head on 

 

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Take ya pick 

 

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Now, for another update. 
 

the mounts for the 5 speed have been relocated, and driveline test fitted into the car. 
all fits perfectly. The car is now officially built to suit a 5 speed :D 

 

I2Igphb.jpg

 

Can just vaguely see how far it moved. Not far at all. A couple of inches


W7QcXcC.jpg

 

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All in and clearing 👌

 

notice the front suspension is gone. Almost ready for paint now :D 

 

2m8wK8u.jpg

 

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12 minutes ago, Outback Jack said:

There's a Scat 1600 crank and bearings for sale on Gumtree over here and a lotus 1600 twin can head if your interested Panko.

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Oh yeah ive seen the lotus head. I wish. 
would definitely be unique. A lotus 4 door escort. But certainly dont have the coin for that. 
if i ever rebuilt the 1600 in the future, id take it out to a 1700, injected, high compression etc. 

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20 minutes ago, Panko said:

it had 120psi on number 1, 2 and 4. 3 was showing nothing 😕 

I swapped the head for a spare 1300 head i had sitting in the shed. Picked up 120psi on number 3 and 2 but 1 & 4 now showed zero 😂 the head i put on was the old head id pulled off the 1300. The 1300 gained compression when i swapped that head off. 

so what's up with the heads? stuck valves? be able to tip some petrol in the head chamber with the valves closed and see if it leaks out either the intake or exhaust port.. 

or was valve lash not set properly? 

 

i think My gemini 2litre has 135psi and goes plenty good, but the compression ratio on them is very low like 8.2 or something (the worked engine should be up around 9.5 if i ever get it together

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Could the low compression be from a big cam? You say the engine is relatively unknown, maybe that's why? Also, the rings could be a bit stuck in the grooves and not sealing well. And like Dean said, sounds like the bad cylinders are leaking through the valves, for both heads.

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