xfish 20 Posted December 16, 2014 Guys, I have the series 2 ELXR8 185kw, and I'd like to know what upgrades were done to the series 3 AUXR8 , to bring it's output to 220kw......since it's the same motor in both cars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,651 Posted December 16, 2014 1.7 roller rockers, alot better flowing extractors and tune, that is assuming that the 185kw 5.0 has the same intake as au and gt40p heads Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted December 16, 2014 I'm sure it was only the Au2 xr8 200kw motor that had the 1.7 rr, and went back to 1.6 rr in the series 3 220kw. The AUs had gt40p heads which flow better than the E7 heads on the EL, same intake though, cams were slightly increased between the two models, exhaust, tune etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLO247 1,713 Posted December 16, 2014 Also slightly improved GT40s and cam. Just go straight for the aftermarket gear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,651 Posted December 16, 2014 AFAIK the series 2 el 185kw had gt40p's and au intake, not sure on the different cam though I've seen 3 220kw au engines apart and the all had the same stick as e series 5.0 although I have heard of them being a different grind occasionally Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trev Vaa 1,185 Posted December 16, 2014 nah, EL2s had E7 heads, i had to change mine to GT40Ps, they did have the explorer intake though. differences between the models. EL2 motor had an explorer intake and E7 heads with the same cam all E series V8s run AU2 200 had explorer intake 1.7 rockers, GT40P heads, and the most agressive standard cam in the 5L range AU3 220 had explorer intake, 1.7 rockers (i think), gt40P heads, and second most agressive camshaft out of the 5.0s my motor, had an EL2 intake with 70mm tb, ported gt40p heads, an AU2 200 cam reground on a 113.5 degree LSA (gives it mid range punch), 1.7 rockers. tuned on LPG it made 208rwkw untuned on petrol it made around the 175 mark. thom you sure they were 220kw motors? they should be different internally... the 220kw was an option otherwise they had 185 or 195kw IIRC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,651 Posted December 17, 2014 They sure were 220kw engines, all 3 were out of numbers matching 220kw au's 1 Trev Vaa reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcfly94 169 Posted December 17, 2014 Au3 got 70mm throttle body, minor flow work on gt40p heads, yella terra 1.7 ratio rockers. The 220kw is the equivalant of the Crow 621339 Valve TimingIN.16/72EX.75/20 DUR in.268 ex.275.050" in.203 ex.209List - .455" .455"Range - 1500 5000 the 200kw got a bigger cam with a lower 1.6 ratio rocker by crane cams, on the 220 the 1.7 brought the 450 up to 470ish this is all the info ive found from the net. and dont forget the comp ratio was upped from the 185kw motor from 9.1 to 9.4 in the 200 and 220. 1 Trev Vaa reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 17, 2014 Annnnnnnnnnnd there still a dohgy shit box...sound good though. 2 PRO250 and Stumps reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trev Vaa 1,185 Posted December 17, 2014 a tune fixes all that... they go pretty well after that, most see around the 200rwkw mark. 1 mcfly94 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xfish 20 Posted December 17, 2014 thanks for the info.........another thing, I had a mate tell me there are cams for the 302w, that if installed, they assist with better flow, and increases performances overall, and the ecu should be able to adjust with out incident..is there any truth to this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 17, 2014 a tune fixes all that... they go pretty well after that, most see around the 200rwkw mark. Annnnnnnnnd they still get smoked by a stock NAT ASP FG XR6. My 2003 5.0L ute has zorst filter tune (if you would belive the sticker in the bay...LOL) and my FG rapes it. The little Windsor may sounds the goods but she don't deliver without some REAL work. If I was to do 1 I would not waste a single cent on GT40 heads...even if free I wouldn't use em.Straight for ally Edelbrock heads cos there cheap and work well.The higher rockers show they want some more lift = bigger lift cam with suitable duration.Can't go to big as they have P/V issues. I'd modify the extractors for longer secondary's and a x pipe with a twin 2.5" or 3" and single muffler with twin in twin out @ the rear. Correct stall and shorter gears to suit combo and get it tuned. That was without touching the bottom end.If I did it properly I'd use a Scat stroker bottom end,proper balancer and some CHI heads...Just saying 3 Thom, Stumps and mcfly94 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted December 17, 2014 Ive been in a few tuned up 5wezzors yes they make numbers but ive not been in one that peforms like the dyno sheetsI spent about 7k on one some years ago my 6cyl commodore would still arse hand it with 80hp lesssteves got a super good au 220 thing its a beast out of the hole but seems very flat, althow its a big fat au bin the whole topend injection and all alloys as robby said and a airgap with comp and super big solid roller, that should see you in the 10s well in a corty anyways Arr fuck it boost the fooker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trev Vaa 1,185 Posted December 18, 2014 agreed, would not bother with GT40P heads if i was looking at it from a performance aspect again. i spent about 2K on my setup all up but i was owed favours so the portwork on my heads was free. was it quick? yes, mate had a standard VE SS and he couldn't keep up. was it a weapon? no. there's plenty of cars out there that would beat it. if i were to do it again, AFR165s if it was staying 302, 185s if i was going a mild 347, or twisted wedges. cam around the 220-230 @ 50thou range and around 520-550 lift. definitely up the compression (imo 10.5:1 at a minimum), this makes a huge difference, i know we ground my heads but i can't remember how much, other than it was a fair bit. depending on cam size depends what intake you use, but all of trickflows intakes are great. in a light car, XDEF/corty/Eseries, it'll be a weapon. if its not enough, hit it with nitrous.but it all comes down to $$$ at the end of the day doesn't it. ^ that'll cost you 6K + tuning. the flatness you all talk about is why i narrowed the LSA on my cam, same other specs, just narrowed from 116* to 113.5* completely changed the dynamics of the engine. quick note though, if you narrowed the LSA on the 200 cam and put on a set of standard GT40Ps on with 1.7 rockers, it would be very noticeable and a 1500$ upgrade.food for thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 18, 2014 Ive been in a few tuned up 5wezzors yes they make numbers but ive not been in one that peforms like the dyno sheets bin the whole topend injection and all alloys as robby said and a airgap with comp and super big solid roller Tuned up Windsors and fast is a myth no matter who says it. Judge who was on here had a pretty serious 302 with a solid and carb set up in his xf with a decent stall and 4:11's and it only just went 13's or high 12's in a XF from memory ? Only way to make em fast is put em in a Corty/Escort/Hot Rod or boost or some way,Blown Turbo or NOS. Take not of the blown version Donny takes to Canberra this year...302 cubes blown alloy heads solid roller and carbs on meth as it made 850hp @ the crank @7900rpm. Other than that 351 tall deck plus cubes or boost of some sort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted December 18, 2014 There is numerous write ups on how to make a 5.0/302w quick, easily into the 11s, but 99% of the time it's with a fox body mustang. To cut a long story, they are a short stroke with lower torque and in a heavy car such as the EB onwards weight kills them. There's 150kg between the average fox mustang and the EB, and as time went on the Falcons got chubbier. The point I'm trying to make is power to weight ratio. I have a roller 302, with a basic H/C/I and added comp. will it set the world on fire, highly likely no. But it will be reliable and in my XD that's only 1350kg it will be fun. Sly, the FG XR6 is a great piece of kit. It is only a fraction slower than the mighty Phase 3. 1 slydog reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 18, 2014 There is numerous write ups on how to make a 5.0/302w quick, easily into the 11s, but 99% of the time it's with a fox body mustang. To cut a long story, they are a short stroke with lower torque and in a heavy car such as the EB onwards weight kills them. There's 150kg between the average fox mustang and the EB, and as time went on the Falcons got chubbier. The point I'm trying to make is power to weight ratio. I have a roller 302, with a basic H/C/I and added comp. will it set the world on fire, highly likely no. But it will be reliable and in my XD that's only 1350kg it will be fun. Sly, the FG XR6 is a great piece of kit. It is only a fraction slower than the mighty Phase 3. Yeah the suspension on the Foxys and wheel base help a bit plus weight distribution.But the fast 1's are all NOS or boosted in some way or the fast NAT ASP1's have a tall deck 351 as the base first. Reliable they are and the way they treat the oil surprises me.They don't seem to get hot either or get noisy and clunky.I love my ute and the noise it makes but I would not race any thing other then a Prius in it as they are a slow shit box.Much like a Harley I guess LOL EDIT I'd race my stock FG against any stock PH3 on a drag strip any day of the week for $500.Mines a auto and I kill the tree. http://www.motormag.com.au/features/1105/then-v-now-gt-ho-against-xr6/ 1 Stumps reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trev Vaa 1,185 Posted December 18, 2014 Tuned up Windsors and fast is a myth no matter who says it. Judge who was on here had a pretty serious 302 with a solid and carb set up in his xf with a decent stall and 4:11's and it only just went 13's or high 12's in a XF from memory ? e303 cam and afr165s will get you in the 12s with an XH with a 5 speed.... thats a pretty basic setup without a rebuild. thats with standard 3.45s in the ass too. my EL did 14.3 with wheelspin through all of first and second gear (LSD was cooked and kept single pegging like a VN) would have been a mid 13sec car otherwise. not hard to make them move at all.... biggest issue with the 5.0 windsor is the block. it splits in half when you rev the tits out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 18, 2014 Remember judge and his Red XF ? Thats was a pretty decent combo with 4;11's and stall and it never went that fast. E 303 is only 220 duration ? mid 12's in a car 150-200kg heavier than a Stang ? Next point got any vids or time slips of these on cars you own or built ? Cos as Judge showed even with a good combo in a lighter car he didn't go mid 12's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZXD 2,328 Posted December 18, 2014 Judges XF had world senior cast iron heads, 550 hyd roller, 9.8 comp and a 650 carb. Went 12.9 at 106. The heads in that combo were holding it back in my opinion as there are far better flowing heads on the shelf out there. 1 Trev Vaa reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trev Vaa 1,185 Posted December 18, 2014 Remember judge and his Red XF ? Thats was a pretty decent combo with 4;11's and stall and it never went that fast. E 303 is only 220 duration ? mid 12's in a car 150-200kg heavier than a Stang ? Next point got any vids or time slips of these on cars you own or built ? Cos as Judge showed even with a good combo in a lighter car he didn't go mid 12's jeff over at streetbuilt, his XH, well known car (pretty sure now its turbo) my xr8s timeslips were in the car when it was written off. along with all the dyno sheets i had, flow charts for the heads, cam card etc i remember judges xf, and always wondered why it wasn't running better times, the thing should have been a rocket, the above seems to have answered it. that was an awesome car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 18, 2014 Measured is proof and TBH a 12 sec EFI NAT ASP stock cubed Weezor would be doing very well in a car thats around 1550kg @ lightest. E303 is not enough cam shaft for that engine IMO to run 12's in a Falcon unless it has been on a diet and alloy heads and trick EFI or Airgap and carb with very suitable auto and gearing. But very happy to be wrong. 1 mcfly94 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted December 19, 2014 Your not worng robthis is a list of boosted im not a active memebr there but do look on there a fair bit as you can see theres a lot of 5litres on there and most are fooking dogs unless there boosted and even then there not the besthttp://fasteste-seriesaustralia.page.tl/but who am i to talk my clevos a dog HAHHAHAHA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRO250 1,506 Posted December 19, 2014 I weighed that ED XR8 I had it was 1640kg with half a tank of fuel no driver there heavyer then people think they are Share this post Link to post Share on other sites