Clevo120Y

Don't use crow springs, half a season of racing and the crows went soft, set at 110lbs they were 85lbs when I tested them again, crap crap crap don't use them.

Its the 86da block you want to run the EF crankshaft

but in saying that there is no real point in running a 12 counter weight crank in a engine that will not rev there is just no point I may be a smoother engine but its lot of crank to get spining in a engine that will not rev over 4800rpm

CC your head and work you compresstion ratio out before getting pistsons ive just done a engine with 15cc pistons and it had well in the 11s in comp it was way higher then I thort it would have been  but I had a head I wanted to use so I had to run with it


 

That's cause you put the effort in Sean and have built a weapon.  When he gets in on the scales and does a bit more fine tuning on the handling it will be untouchable. 
 
Oh and don't call them a tractor engine vanJack - every time you do that  - an angel dies - or some bad shit happens. lol. 

Yeah they are all fair prices there, the balance is a great price.
extras that normally people have to pay that add up that you haven't had done is :  valve guide replacement, cylinder head facing on 3sides, seat inserts replaced and seats cut, refacing valves and backcut. Your block didn't get any machining except a hone in the bores so other costs are normally at least a deck face then line honing of the crank and cam tunnel, your crank only had the big ends done but not the mains, you didn't get new rod bolts done either, no head bolts there or oil pump etc etc.
All these things add up and more so if you have to have the head repaired like welding in the water galleries then refaced, have the chambers cc'd for even compression.
Don't be shocked if you have to spend $5000 on parts and machining then around $1000 for someone to PROPERLY assemble it so it lasts and can handle a flogging.
It's funny because when I port a head I charge about $600 to disassemble and inspect a head, work out the port sizes for the combination and grind the ports, before and after flow testing and then reassemble the head, this takes me at least 4 days. then the machinist charges $1000/$1500 to do the rest of the work which takes half a day, new inserts, seat cuts, facing, guides and valve grinds. LOL people think I'm making heaps out of it but I make less than a normal wage but I do it for the love and to see people go faster!!!

Thanks mate glad you enjoyed the thread, the old girl goes hard and is proving to be very reliable, some of these guys up the front have hurt engines really bad a number of times during a season and ours just flies race after race.
Cheers

Thanks mate glad you enjoyed the thread, the old girl goes hard and is proving to be very reliable, some of these guys up the front have hurt engines really bad a number of times during a season and ours just flies race after race.
Cheers

Just read the whole thread. Wow! Inspirational!! Apparantly Santucione from Ford (back in the day) said the 4.1 was a torque motor, not a high rev horsepower motor. Not that they cant rev, just no point, just moving the torque peak up the rev range for not much gain.
And you've proved it, you've used the torque, flogging them with an old tractor engine...!!!
Man that must grate on the rest of the field..
Love to meet some of you guys.
More power to you!

Great to hear your up and about and able to get back into it. I will put my name down for a tickled webber when you have nothing to do hahahaha

Stumper no offence taken at all, I myself was just clearing up what the above list doesnt detail. Sorry if it came across as defensive. You are 100% correct in that you look at a list like I posted and it doesnt show everything that wasnt needed, and yes I was very lucky to get an engine that really didnt that much done to it. I personally think its a credit to the previous owner that he ran it for so many years and it was in such good condition.
In regards to the porting, I agree with Ando but for slightly different reasons. When I bought the cylinder head it already had quite a bit work done to it. So the work that was done was really only customising the head to my camshaft. So my flow figures actually show more the skill of the person doing the porting in tailoring the head rather that peak flow fugures.

Great stuff sean - good to see you are on the up and up - in health and business - good luck with it all.

Soon as I can afford a decent head etc, or at least one not as ugly as the one on me neck.... I'll be down to get you to start on a good flowed set up and headers for me 4L stumpers. Be either an Xr6 set up in SOHC, or maybe if I get nuts, might be a Barra twinny.
 
Take care mate and best of luck with ya new venture, should be Proud.
 
Jack.

The price Ryan paid for his porting is not actually what a normal port job would be so it is probably not fair to say.  Ryan got a heavily discounted rate as he was a customer of mine. 
 
Your rates are more than fair Sean and if anyone on here wants a proper port job, they could do no better than use your service.  Not blowing wind up your arse but the reality is finding someone who is;
 
a. interested in hand porting a dinosaur engine cylinder head
b. knows what they are doing with that particular head to make it work
c. uses that knowledge and equipment at hand to make real differences to flow
d. provides evidence of improvements
e. backs their product and will be around if/when repairs of improvements are needed and
f.  does it at a decent rate,
is very rare these days.  Sure you could buy a CHI/ Barbagello CNC ported head but if you want something tailored to a particular package, people like yourself and a few others are hard to beat. 
 
What the machining costs etc show is that if you want to make money - Don't be an engine builder or cylinder head porter - you will go broke.  Lucky we do it because we love it.

At the moment the workshop is getting a makeover for the relaunch of "Stumpers Heads & Manifolds" early next year. Something had to go to make room so the XD wagon got the chop for now, it's out at Wombats property, new shelving going up, some new tools on the way and some mould making gear to make carby tops that will be dyno tested and developed for sale later, hopefully a big year coming up.
Also the production XF that I did the head, manifold and carb for last year will have it's first run this weekend so I'm excited to see how that goes as well, this XF has been a back of the field car for years so let's see if we can get it up near the front.

Yeah mate I'm good thanks, pulled up from the first surgery sweet and can't wait for the next one. should be good by early next year.
 
Ando he probably stuffed the corner hahahaha, nah it does need to be softer I think, it doesn't squat like the other cars on the track.
 
Wombat had a terrible weekend in Barker, put it into the wall in heat 2 so a DNF there and had to replace the lower control arm, heat 3 was going good in 3rd then the diff caught fire because the backing plate had broken and all the oil had drained out and the diff shit itself so another DNF and onto the trailer for the rest of the day. So a 2.92 is being built this week and a change to the bigger water pump pulley and race again this weekend in Albany.

My head had standard size valves when I took it in and came out with 1.84 inlet and 1.56 exhaust, and the seat has a 5 angle cut on it now   The bore was taken out to 40thou from 30 thou with associated machining. The rod bolts were already ARP and the crank only needed the big ends done to remove some light cracks after inspection.  You are defiantly right in that prices do add up quickly, that's why I thought I would throw up the pic. The quote I mentioned in post 29 really was only for $1600ish.
The one thing that is not show but which cost the most was the hand porting to the combustion chambers and runners.

Yeah mate I'm good thanks, pulled up from the first surgery sweet and can't wait for the next one. should be good by early next year.
 
Ando he probably stuffed the corner hahahaha, nah it does need to be softer I think, it doesn't squat like the other cars on the track.
 
Wombat had a terrible weekend in Barker, put it into the wall in heat 2 so a DNF there and had to replace the lower control arm, heat 3 was going good in 3rd then the diff caught fire because the backing plate had broken and all the oil had drained out and the diff shit itself so another DNF and onto the trailer for the rest of the day. So a 2.92 is being built this week and a change to the bigger water pump pulley and race again this weekend in Albany.

Oi ya degenerate Albany motor destroyer! LOL . Are you doing well mate? Hope the surgery has gone well and we see ya back here real soon mate.
Take care Stumpers.
 
Jack.

Tell wombat he needs to soften (and lower) the back of his car.  I can see that just from that photo.  Compare the attitude of his car to the other two in the photo.  That tells me that the car is pushing because that left rear tyre has way too much drive.  Perhaps a standard spring (that has seen lots of use or heavy towing) in the rear but be careful cutting them as this increases the stiffness of the spring no end. 
 
I could also just be that he stuffed the corner entry creating the push but to me the rear still needs to come down to earth by a good 2"s. 

Yeah they are all fair prices there, the balance is a great price.
extras that normally people have to pay that add up that you haven't had done is :  valve guide replacement, cylinder head facing on 3sides, seat inserts replaced and seats cut, refacing valves and backcut. Your block didn't get any machining except a hone in the bores so other costs are normally at least a deck face then line honing of the crank and cam tunnel, your crank only had the big ends done but not the mains, you didn't get new rod bolts done either, no head bolts there or oil pump etc etc.
All these things add up and more so if you have to have the head repaired like welding in the water galleries then refaced, have the chambers cc'd for even compression.
Don't be shocked if you have to spend $5000 on parts and machining then around $1000 for someone to PROPERLY assemble it so it lasts and can handle a flogging.
It's funny because when I port a head I charge about $600 to disassemble and inspect a head, work out the port sizes for the combination and grind the ports, before and after flow testing and then reassemble the head, this takes me at least 4 days. then the machinist charges $1000/$1500 to do the rest of the work which takes half a day, new inserts, seat cuts, facing, guides and valve grinds. LOL people think I'm making heaps out of it but I make less than a normal wage but I do it for the love and to see people go faster!!!

As expected I was wrong. But hey I only got one number wrong, it just happened to be the first number. So to clear thing up here ya go

 

You can drop straight into an 86 da block or machine the crank down or the block out if it's an 84da.
 
The longer 3.3 rods allow extra dwell at the top of stroke, ie for a given amount of piston movement you get more degrees of rotation on the crank. Hard to do seeing mahle has stopped making pistons to suit. Commodore 3.8 eco tec ones seem to be the go but then the machining costs will blow out. But I haven't done anything like that with mine.
 
A good coil is a good idea but a better one is to add a street fire cdi added onto it. It looks like doc Emmett brown with a flux capacitor belted up his ass with a hover board.
 
The injected gas can be done as the computer splices into the ford computer and reads from that and learns it's shit. Of course some of us like cooking with bbq gas, others like to run their cars on it, some like dcoe's, some like injection.
 
I like playing with injection, but the xf system is a pos. much bette when an el system runs the show.
 
And if the spelling is shit I this I apologise the auto correct is being a dumb fucking whore and I just want to shove my iPhone 6 plus up steves jobs ass. You like how that feels Steve?
 
Next they'll do a fucking 8 inch version with an app that squirts lube. Fuck!

If you put a diffuser plate in the plenum you can distribute the flow more evenly, I'm working on this problem with the ecotech manifold.

Good info gerg.  I have flow tested the aussiespeed four barrel an there is a slight difference (8cfm) on number 3 runner when compared to 1 and 2.  ten minutes with a die grinder in the right areas on 1&2 and even cfm is achieved.
 
Oh and I believe I was the one talking about even balanced manifold - not my fellow crossy freak from over in WA.  but hey all good.  The point is more important than the poster.  
 
sounds like LPG is a lot like methanol.  I know for a fact that the lpg engines I have pulled down are just a clean as a methanol engine. 

Just put a tree stump logo on it with a cylinder head on top and an axe through it.
 
TM

All great advice from the usual crossy freaks on here but I'll add a bit more on the LPG thing.
 
Stumper is 100% on manifold balance. My dad's XF was a warm 4.1 EFI and was a smooth revver all the way to 5500. That exact same donk in my LPG Corty with a Redline 2-barrel manifold was shitty above 4000 and felt like it was going to shake itself to bits. Bad cylinder balance from poor manifold design.
 
Now the LPG. You'll need some decent plenum volume and a manifold that will give even flow for each runner. Although EFI manifolds are more even than carby ones, they have small plenums and runners and still favour the two middle cylinders, as they are right in front of the throttle.
 
The factory rating for the EFI donk was 120 kW. Not bad for its day considering the 5.0 Dunnydoor made about that much. But the EFI manifold might only handle 150 kW before maxing out, and seeing as LPG takes up more volume in the intake than just plain air or air/petrol, that power potential becomes even less. The throttle drawing air from the hot side of the engine adds to the problem.
 
So your choice in manifolds may not be the best to reach your goal, which is to match the performance of a modern V6 (around 180 kW).
 
Ditto for the mixer. 225 is woefully small for any kind of performance engine. Go at least the next size up or a GRA single. Aussiespeed manifolds are not perfect but miles ahead of anything else, so I'd go with one of them in 4-barrel (for the plenum volume).
 
So go bigger with everything... Manifold, mixer, ports, valves, cam, exhaust... all will work together to give you what you're after. No point in having one weak link in the chain.