26 posts in this topic

Hi All,

 

I'm pretty noob at my car, its an XD fairmont with a 250 xflow. The challenge i am having is that the car wont start, but there is some history here so bare with me.... I drove it for a fair few km's one day to grab some parts for it and it died (when i say died we turned the engine off and it just wouldn't start up again). Got it towed back home and through the troubleshooting process did the following:

  • did the carby with a carby kit (gaskets etc)
  • new plugs and leads
  • new coil
  • Checked timing

 

I ended up getting a mechanic to look at it and they replaced the dizzy with a spare and he was able to get it running (however said the actual issue was weak spark due to cable from the coil).

 

So we drove it for a week and then it died again, and here is where i'm at:

  • There is fuel in the bowl and when you pump the pedal fuel squirts in
  • There is spark (removed number 1 plug, put it in the lead and held to engine block and its sparks when you crank)
  • There is compression (put finger in plug hole to check)

 

So where i got to was timing/distributor. When checking it with timing gun its set to 6 degrees and it cranks but wont start (not even a splutter), when you full retard the dizzy it almost starts. Any suggestions where i go to from here?

 

The thing i really cant get my head around is what could have changed between it work and then not working.

 

Gav

 

 

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Could be a bad ignition barrel, try running a wire directly from the battery to the coil, if this works it means either the wiring or the barrel isn't sending power to the coil unless it is in the crank position

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11 hours ago, Thom said:

Could be a bad ignition barrel, try running a wire directly from the battery to the coil, if this works it means either the wiring or the barrel isn't sending power to the coil unless it is in the crank position

So if i run a wire from positive terminal on battery over to positive on the coil then turn the key that would be the right way to do this test?

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Could it be a dodgy starter zapping all the power to turn over and in turn robbing power from the coil as it’s trying to start? Maybe if you get a mate to crank it for you and you put a positive wire direct from the battery to coil it might start. I saw this done on a Range Rover V8 a while ago and it worked, I think a relay was placed onto the wiring to the starter and kept it working until the starter completely died.

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Points are closed.  ?? Has it got any.....

 

Harmonic balancer has slipped, (put No.1 cyl up to TDC, and check it on the balancer)

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On 11/09/2018 at 4:53 PM, Ando81 said:

Could it be a dodgy starter zapping all the power to turn over and in turn robbing power from the coil as it’s trying to start? Maybe if you get a mate to crank it for you and you put a positive wire direct from the battery to coil it might start. I saw this done on a Range Rover V8 a while ago and it worked, I think a relay was placed onto the wiring to the starter and kept it working until the starter completely died.

Ok so i ran a cable from positive terminal on battery to the positive terminal on the coil and still no luck, its cranking but not starting. I dont really get the electrical side of things but i do have a multimeter (though dont really know how to use). If i connect multimeter to the positive and negative terminals of the battery i get 12.5V, when i connect it to the positive and negative of the coil i get 7.8v - i understand the coil has a resister in it, so would that be expected?

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I think I’ve heard of a resistor coil only operating on 8v but can’t be 100% sure. If you get a mate to crank the car and check voltage of the battery it will probably drop to 10 or so volts. This may not prove anything but may surprise you as to how low the volts drop during cranking.

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12 hours ago, Ando81 said:

I think I’ve heard of a resistor coil only operating on 8v but can’t be 100% sure. If you get a mate to crank the car and check voltage of the battery it will probably drop to 10 or so volts. This may not prove anything but may surprise you as to how low the volts drop during cranking.

 

I’ll check, if it drops really low I wonder if the issue could be the battery. Far out so many things to check!

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11 hours ago, Ando81 said:

If it cranks reasonably quick then I’d rule out the battery but I’m really no expert on the topic. Has it got points in the distributor?

 

Na it’s a capacitive distributor.

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I’ve heard of camshaft wearing and not driving the distributor correctly, I wonder if it’s jumped a tooth at some stage when you turned the engine off. Crossflow engines can wear the fuel pump lobe off the cam therefore stop fuel being pumped into the car by but you said it was pumping fuel in didn’t you? I’d be double checking that you have cylinder 1 on top dead centre using a cable tie or something on top of the piston then see where the timing is set at. This is an odd one that’s for sure

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On 16/09/2018 at 7:18 AM, Ando81 said:

I’ve heard of camshaft wearing and not driving the distributor correctly, I wonder if it’s jumped a tooth at some stage when you turned the engine off. Crossflow engines can wear the fuel pump lobe off the cam therefore stop fuel being pumped into the car by but you said it was pumping fuel in didn’t you? I’d be double checking that you have cylinder 1 on top dead centre using a cable tie or something on top of the piston then see where the timing is set at. This is an odd one that’s for sure emoji51.png

 

So it looks like when the mechanic swapped the dizzy they put it in 180 degrees out, so that’s fixed up but still won’t start.

 

fuels in bowl and the fuel pumps up to the carby well, cranks, has spark, timings done - won’t start. 

 

Totally lost on where to to go to from here, any suggestions?

 

 

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So it looks like when the mechanic swapped the dizzy they put it in 180 degrees out, so that’s fixed up but still won’t start.
 
fuels in bowl and the fuel pumps up to the carby well, cranks, has spark, timings done - won’t start. 
 
Totally lost on where to to go to from here, any suggestions?
 
 
OK time to start thinking outside the box.

You haven't gotten a gutful of water in the fuel? Confirm by clamping fuel line and squirting something flammable down the carby.

Are you 100% certain that #1 is on TDC compression when spark occurs?

Is the new coil designed to run with 9v (as per standard) or is it a 12v type? The latter would give a weak spark which may work outside of the cylinder but under compression, might not light the fire. I had this with a weak coil that would fire a plug outside on cranking, but there was nobody home when connected up. Swapped coils, and she fired no problems.

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1 minute ago, gerg said:

OK time to start thinking outside the box.

You haven't gotten a gutful of water in the fuel? Confirm by clamping fuel line and squirting something flammable down the carby.

Are you 100% certain that #1 is on TDC compression when spark occurs?

Is the new coil designed to run with 9v (as per standard) or is it a 12v type? The latter would give a weak spark which may work outside of the cylinder but under compression, might not light the fire. I had this with a weak coil that would fire a plug outside on cranking, but there was nobody home when connected up. Swapped coils, and she fired no problems.

Sent from my CPH1607 using Tapatalk
 

 

Ok i've checked the wiring on the coil and it was back to front, its getting stronger spark now. the Dizzy is fully retarded and its so close to turning over, its so close to turning over. 

 

I'm going to re-check #1 is on TDC compression when the spark occurs again. 

 

Question: Can the dizzy be out by 90 degrees?

 

 

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if the mechanic had it running b4 and now its not running after you turned it 180 ,just stick yur finger over number 1 hole and turn the key in tiny amounts until you hear the fanny fart then look at yur balancer and it sounds like you dont have enough timing in it i would put more like 14 deg or more in it just to get it fired up.

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Ok i've checked the wiring on the coil and it was back to front, its getting stronger spark now. the Dizzy is fully retarded and its so close to turning over, its so close to turning over. 
 
I'm going to re-check #1 is on TDC compression when the spark occurs again. 
 
Question: Can the dizzy be out by 90 degrees?
 
 
It can be out by any amount, divisible by the number of teeth on the gear. You can easily be one tooth out; when you go to slot it in to what you think is TDC actually changes as it slides home, and you can watch the rotor turn slightly (due to the angle of the helical-cut drive gear). On many engines isn't a drama as you can just rotate the dizzy either way to compensate. But crossys don't have much room to rotate the dizzy from memory, so you need to be bang-on the right tooth.

Lining up the oil pump hex is fun too, what I like to do is engage the dizzy allowing for the helical angle, and bump the key to get the dizzy to fall into place. You'll know you're in if you can push the dizzy in all the way home. Then check rotor position in relation to what cylinder it's supposed to be on. If in doubt, crank it till it comes back around to number 1 and check it against the cap.

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the dizzy should be pointing towards the passenger fender maybe a tad towards water overflow bottle,and the pointer almost the same towards number 1 then adjust the body of the dizzy ,yes it will move when you slot it in,we have all been thru this 100 times i spent 2 days once b4 getting it spot on on my crossy as there is not much room to move to get within 30deg movement in distributer body keep goin you will get it.

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tell what dizzy is actually in it ,the old school early xd or xe style or even xf,cause if its a efi dizzy it has a different trigger wheel than carby one i had this problem .

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tell what dizzy is actually in it ,the old school early xd or xe style or even xf,cause if its a efi dizzy it has a different trigger wheel than carby one i had this problem .
You basicly want to slot the dizzy in around this position,then ya have plenty of room to move the timing up towards the back of the engine i think whats happened is you only have 1 or 2 deg in it thats why it almost goes if ya just pull the dizzy out where it sits now and move it back 1 slot you will find its more like 15 or 20 deg then time it down a bit,rough picture of where it should sit1dd491eb7853dbdefacfc34e403419ae.jpg

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if it was 180 degrees out it wouldn't have ran.. poor mechanic?

 

if it was 180 degrees out you could have just started the leads sequence from number 1 at the new spot(opposite correct number 1) (yeah, too late for that now)

 

it doesn't matter where number 1 is on the cap if the leads reach any spot. so you can find top dead centre number one by either winding engine over with number one plug out and your finger over the hole until pressure pushes your finger up(chestnut calls this the fanny fart) look at the balancer and wind it to 10ish deg advance.. then lift the dissy cap off, see where the rotor button is pointing and start number 1 there and go around in the firing order in correct direction 153624 clockwise
start the car, and check timing.. 

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.........and as always, don't trust the Harmonic balancer.  Sounds like you are one tooth out. As pointed out, the rotor will turn slightly when installing, lift the dizzy out and wind it back quarter of a turn and try again.  Make sure you have true TDC, like suggested.  Stick a drinking straw in No.1 spark plug hole, and watch it rise and fall when you are turning the engine over. 

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On 03/12/2018 at 2:00 PM, bear351c said:

.........and as always, don't trust the Harmonic balancer.  Sounds like you are one tooth out. As pointed out, the rotor will turn slightly when installing, lift the dizzy out and wind it back quarter of a turn and try again.  Make sure you have true TDC, like suggested.  Stick a drinking straw in No.1 spark plug hole, and watch it rise and fall when you are turning the engine over. 

 

Well i got it running, the timing is way off though and it needs to be at very high revs to hold idle. It was making a fair bit of noise so took off the rocker cover. There is a fair bit of play between some of the push rods and the rockers and some of them aren't pushing oil through (3 of them). Does this indicate an issue with the hydraulic lifters?

 

i'd say all in all the engines pretty stuffed lol

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Well i got it running, the timing is way off though and it needs to be at very high revs to hold idle. It was making a fair bit of noise so took off the rocker cover. There is a fair bit of play between some of the push rods and the rockers and some of them aren't pushing oil through (3 of them). Does this indicate an issue with the hydraulic lifters?
 
i'd say all in all the engines pretty stuffed lol
Sure sounds like it. Starting to have a bit of Deja Vu with my engine recently wiping out a camshaft lobe and lifter, similar symptoms.

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Could be just sticky lifters, not doing regular oil changes and overheating the oil, (thrashing it) can cause oil breakdown of all the good stuff, cause gum or varnish to build up.

Are you able to remove the pushrods and squirt some Carby Cleaner down the lifters and pump them up and down several times.....might work.

 

Could also be wiped out cam lobes.  Any glitter in the oil or filter.?

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