Alternators for crossflow...WTF

[wagoon 2,429]

So went to the auto sparky on the way home today ( 2 actually). First sparky only wanted to order in a OEX brand 120A universal alternator and see if the pulley off the front of my alternator would fit, well I thought that plan stank so I moved on. The second place which I have used before said that they would have to look into bigger than a 60A (listed as XF apparently) as that's all they had listed as a direct replacement for an XE crossflow. Said something about they could see if a late 80's early 90's falcon 80ishAmp alternator with a V belt would fit but they would have to do research before they committed which is fair enough. Then got onto rebuilding my standard 50A (stuffed as causes voltage spikes) bosch alternator and for up to $200 they would give my a new looking rebuilt alternator with approx 75-80Amp rating although he was none committal on the Amp rating of the finished alternator as they would be using spares they had upstairs.

So got home and doing a search around and found a over a dozen places advertising a Bosch BXF1250A  which is suppose to fit XE crossflow etc. Problem is none of them list the power output as the same, places are advertising it as having either 55A or 60A or 85A for the exact same part number.  Has anyone actually bought an alternator with part number BXF1250A and can you tell me the actual Amp rating of it is?

 

Next question is what higher amp rated alternator are people using? I'm looking for preferable 100+A but 85A might do at a stretch if I time delay my thermos to reduce the load on the alternator. And I don't really won't chrome as it would be the only thing in the bay with chrome on it and would look very much out of place.

 

[BBS XE 160]

BXF1250A is listed in the Bosch catalag as 60A, I put one in mine a while ago and can confirm that it is 60A (better than the 45A that was in it lol). I've read on here that the internals of a VN to VR 85A alternator can be fitted into the crossflow case with a little modification. 

[slydog 7,873]

I got a X model 85 amp OEX unit but I put a 100mm GT pulley on it.Charges my stuff fine and looks factory.

[steve mcqueen 1,796]

Also, once you find the one you want and can get a part number, check on line price's.

On line price's on items like alternators and starter motors are hands down cheap cheap cheap!!

[wagoon 2,429]

Thanks BBS for the clarification. Yeah I have been reading around about modifying the internals but the details are very vague with no specifics. Just not sure I want to go buying a good/new alternator that I have to pull apart (I dont have a bearing puller so more expense on top)to see if the mod works.

 

Sly you wouldnt happen to have a part number for the alternator? Whats the advantage with putting the bigger diameter pulley on?

[hendrixhc 10,921]

I know im running clevos but i got a 100A Powermaster on the XC and 140A on the XE.

 

Easy to fit and one wire connection.

 

think they were only $230 and $280.

[TUFE 284]

I'm using an e-series 109?amp. Cant remember how many wires it uses but it charges my boot battery perfectly. All I did was changed the serpentine pully for a stock XE pully. It's practically a direct bolt on, you may have to space it backwards or forwards depending on positioning. You can see in this picture the ungraded alt in stock location.[/url]

[slydog 7,873]

Thanks BBS for the clarification. Yeah I have been reading around about modifying the internals but the details are very vague with no specifics. Just not sure I want to go buying a good/new alternator that I have to pull apart (I dont have a bearing puller so more expense on top)to see if the mod works.

 

Sly you wouldnt happen to have a part number for the alternator? Whats the advantage with putting the bigger diameter pulley on?

 

I don't have the part number sorry but I can say it shit the internal reg the very first day and I had to fit a Bosch unit which cost $50 bringing it up to the same cost as a Bosch unit I tried to avoid paying extra for LOL. What a dumb ass ay.

 

The big pulley stops the belt coming off @ RPM.Drops charge rate but I have never had a Issue.

[ando76 4,354]

I would not buy anything 'new' Bosch. We have had a terrible run with them. I seized 2 brand new ones in a row and Brenton's brand new supplied by OEX starter last 1 meeting and then refused to start again. Gave him an 'old' Bosch second hand unit off a wreck and it worked perfectly.

I wouldn't have thought it was so hard but obviously down there everyone has moved onto late model stuff and know one keeps old stuff. I have a pile of 'old' BOSCH alternators at work bud. If you want I'll sort thru and find a big amp one and get Craig to check it out or service it for you if you like.

Steer well clear of that new stuff. It only brings trouble.

[ando76 4,354]

+1 on the bigger pulls if it is an external fan unit you end up going with. Anything over 5500 for any duration turns the fins inside out. Yep I have a photo here somewhere to show you if you like

[gerg 10,871]

Yeah Ando I agree, new spares are absolute rubbish these days, quality control is non-existent. They don't care if it breaks after 5 minutes, and getting your money back is a massive fuckaround with postage, etc.

 

At least OEM parts had to last as long as the rest of the car, so are 1000% better in quality.

 

I'd grab an old school 85A one, throw a $30 reg/brushes at it, $10 bearings (good Timken ones) big pulley like what sly said, freshen up the brush rings with a cordless drill and some 1000 grit, will love you long time. If you're getting really excited you could get the casing sandblasted/clear-coated to get it looking brand-spankers.

 

Make sure your lead coming off the output to the battery is decent, like small starter cable. I had to run a second one on mine recently as I measured 0.6V drop when running, enough to not charge the battery properly.

 

Another plus: you'll have a nice big "MADE IN AUSTRALIA" cast into it too, you can look at that with pride every time you pop the hood.

[Mr Polson 10,214]

New Bosch stuff these days is made in China, just with the Bosch name I believe.

[wagoon 2,429]

Thank you everyone for the input it really really helps.

 

Tufe did you have to change the bearing when changing the pulley or was it literally pull the serpentine pulley and put on the v belt pulley? Spacing the alternator is no real drama as I have to make up a new adjuster top bracket anyway to suit the offset pulley on the harmonic balancer.

 

 

I don't have the part number sorry but I can say it shit the internal reg the very first day and I had to fit a Bosch unit which cost $50 bringing it up to the same cost as a Bosch unit I tried to avoid paying extra for LOL. What a dumb ass ay.

 

The big pulley stops the belt coming off @ RPM.Drops charge rate but I have never had a Issue.

Not stupid at all dude, I would expect a brand new item to be up to the task that's why you buy brand new. Looks like I will need to look for a bigger pulley.

 

 

Ando the first guy I went to is suppose to be the bloke to see locally about rebuilding and modifying alternators, the first and only thing he did was reach for the bosch book. As for the new stuff well yeah that's why I am really unsure going new because of others experience and my love of all things brand new. I would much rather a checked over genuine ford one, either x series or e series.

 

 

Greg the problem is finding a decent old usable alternator that people don't want 11ty million dollars for because its "rare" and "V8 size". But there is a heap of info here to work with so I should be able to get something sorted.

[wagoon 2,429]

This EA 100 Amp falcon one maybe an option as well not sure. Measurements of the body provided look pretty close to my original 50A. Might be hard to find a genuine one now though http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EA-Ford-6-Cylinder-3-9L-3-2L-12V-100-Amp-Upgrade-Bosch-Alternator-FREE-Meter-/130848926081

 

Edit: I contacted the ebay seller in the link for this alternator and I asked specifically if the alternator he remanufactured was a genuine ford/bosch removed from an EA his response was that it was genuine bosch so not quite sure if it's a newer bosch or an original ford one. He did say they get 106amps out of them and he was happy to include a plug to suit plug and play with my wiring harness (carby crossflow). All this for $180 including post is looking very tempting. The seller is listed as being in Allenby Gardens in SA under the name starter motors alternators australia

[wagoon 2,429]

This one is from Rocket industries it's a Racing Power Company brand 100amp alternator apparently made as direct fit for crossflow one wire with external reg, but its F@&KING chrome only http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RPC-Chrome-Alternator-100A-suit-Ford-1965-1986-V6-V8-RPCR3903-/262048295024

 

Is this the brand you have Hendrixhc?  Anyone know if the quality of this brand is any good?

 

Edit: From what I can find Racing Power Company sell all chinese made stuff but there is very limited info on actual products, even the website has nothing on it but dead ends. Unless I can find some good reviews of the products I think I will steer clear of this one. Interesting to note though that this brand is carried by a lot of the big name aftermarket parts companies here is oz including

[hendrixhc 10,921]

Mine both have internal regulators. They are a powermaster brand. Chrome for the win!

[wagoon 2,429]

Also found this nice black alternator although I have no details on it, although I have sent an enquiry off about it http://www.tuffstuffperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=8170/category_id=279/mode=prod/prd8170.htm 

It lists as a 100Amp small case 1 wire alternator, it's available here is oz so you don't have to order direct from the states

[Thom 6,651]

Mine both have internal regulators. They are a powermaster brand. Chrome for the win!

 

I've found the powermasters a bit hit and miss, they either seem to last 10 minutes or 10 years

[slydog 7,873]

The first big issue I see with them big amp units is you will be swapping that tiny pulley to a better suited unit and that will see your amp output lower than Miley Cyrus standards. Do they all run such a small pulley ? 

[Outback Jack 6,352]

I was just thinking the same thing Sly.

Its almost like ALL the internals on the alternators are the same and the only thing that changes in reality is the pulley size.

 

Ok., if you can use one from an xg or eb2 sohc motor or get a new one the same.

It's actually a mitsubishi unit. Built in IC regulator.

3 wire

B+ battery connection

L. Warning light

S. Battery sense.

Is 60Amp minimum (actually 65-70amp) alternator in the wiring not by pulley size@ 2,500-3,000rpm

Thats with ALL accesories running.

Looked for model number for alternator but just says mitsubishi 6 cylinder.

Should be same one on any eb2, xg.

Xf is still bosch alternators

50A bosch is model U-K1 ® 14/50A

60A boschvis model U-K1 ® 14/60A.

 

Hope that helps.

Mine is same un rebuilt alternator from factory driven in dusty environment since 1996.

 

 

 

Sent from my GT-S7583T using Tapatalk

[wagoon 2,429]

The size of the pulley on the EA alternator is actually a couple of mm's bigger than my current standard one. I don't have measurements for the RPC or tuff stuff pulleys but if you look at the size of the aftermarket pulley's compared to the EA pulley they look pretty much the same (even look at pulley to external fan size ratio).

 

Also due to the type of racing I will be doing the time spent at high rpm will be low, I'm thinking that I probably won't need to resize the pulley larger and will stay with factory original size. Since I haven't changed camshaft size I don't see any reason for me to believe that the rev limit Jason had on the engine won't be to far from what I will have which was around 6200 if I remember correctly.

 

At the moment the rebuilt 100amp EA alternator is looking pretty good as I can just plug and play with the wiring and I already have to make a new top mount anyway. The EA is cheaper than getting my 50A one rebuilt to 75-80A and it will most likely require the least amount of modification to work compared to the aftermarket ones. There are the other original ford options but they still require me to buy the alternator either second hand and could fail or reco'd which cost the same or more than the EA one. Then the other ford alternators will still likely need work like change pulleys, different wiring and maybe lower mounts modified. Still looking for a decent x series in at least 85 amp but that's not turning up much.

[wagoon 2,429]

Still need to confirm but I may have my electricity woes sorted. Helping someone out and in turn they are checking for a high output factory alternator for me and if they have one it's mine. I will look into using a digital time delay (as shown by hendrixhc in the time delay -RC circuit thread) when the thermo's starts to help no over draw the system.

[BBS XE 160]

I would not buy anything 'new' Bosch. We have had a terrible run with them. I seized 2 brand new ones in a row and Brenton's brand new supplied by OEX starter last 1 meeting and then refused to start again. Gave him an 'old' Bosch second hand unit off a wreck and it worked perfectly.

I wouldn't have thought it was so hard but obviously down there everyone has moved onto late model stuff and know one keeps old stuff. I have a pile of 'old' BOSCH alternators at work bud. If you want I'll sort thru and find a big amp one and get Craig to check it out or service it for you if you like.

Steer well clear of that new stuff. It only brings trouble.

Getting hard to find anything new that's any good. I should of added that the BXF1250A I'm using was an old stock Australian one. Last 2 Bosch starters I've bought were made in bloody Brazil, they've been working fine for 12 months now but I doubt they'll last as long as the originals.   

[TUFE 284]

So I did that alt about 6 years ago so I can't remember much about the install. FWIR it was rattle off serp. pully, rattle on v-pully then check for free spin.

These EA ones sound good though, there was no way known I was getting 12v across the terminals in the boot with my standard 35amp alt. I was constantly getting bat flatterys and it was especially annoying considering it was my daily. Then I woke up to myself and made it a fun car only.

[wagoon 2,429]

If anybody is going to look for an EA alternator be aware that they come in a couple of different Amp ratings 85amp is the highest standard one I believe. The top mounting point is in a different location (not offset like a crossflow to engine side) so top mount will need likely need modifying but from the measurements available the lower mounts are the same distance apart as an x series.