Fuel line questions

[wagoon 2,429]

This is a 2 part question

 

1. Looking at replacing the hard fuel line with larger internal diameter stainless braid as it will run on the underside of the car. Thinking of getting PTFE E85 compatible line for later on just in case, but since it will be a couple of years before I will be possibly using E85 will the PTFE last? Does it go brittle, crack and what is the life span of PFTE braided line.

 

2. Because the above oversize fuel line is going into my sedan, when I remove my roller crossflow in a few years the sedan will be returned back to full street duties with only a mild crossflow. So will the oversize fuel line cause any drama’s with just a mild crossflow? I know this may be a strange question but I know flow is important and I don’t know whether having to large a fuel line and standard mechanical fuel pump will cause issues. And since the Queensland government is passing a law that will outlaw regular 91 fuel (must be ethanol or premium 95/98 only) I'm thinking I may as well run the mild crossflow on E85 as well.

[ando76 4,354]

I aeronautical uses they put a life span on braided stainless.  I reality it will never fail in your and my life time. 

[Menice 331]

Not trying to change your mind but wouldn't hardline be more long lasting in general, and maybe cheaper. I thought about braided on mine but didn't like the cost when i can get hardline for 1/3rd the price, little more work i suppose fitting it though

[wagoon 2,429]

It ok Menice I dont mind other ideas. I thought that hardline was a problem with E85? I can get 20 feet of -8AN E85 compatible stainless braid for around $100 in a bit bigger than 3/8inch ID. Would have thought getting 3/8inch hardline bent to shape to suit car would cost more than that.

[Menice 331]

I originally ordered 25feet of Aeroflow black (e85 compatible) hardline for ~$50-60 they were out of stock at the time so i ended up getting regular hardline that isn't compatible with a small refund for the difference, i'm going to be bending my own line and i wouldn't think there would be that many bends in total to get it most of the way i also have to do all my brake lines as well so will be good practice lol

[wagoon 2,429]

Thats a bloody good point in having to do brake lines as well. Thats not a bad price on the E85 compliant hard line which I didnt even know they did. Will have a look at the price of the tool required to bend the hardline.

[Menice 331]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AEROFLOW-ALUMINIUM-HARD-LINE-1-2-12-7MM-X-25-FOOT-ROLL-FUEL-OIL-WATER-E85-BLACK-/120992199144

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

do you need to go for a bigger line my fuel pump is 3/8" and is rated for 650hp,

tube bender is $15-50 depending on what type

[wagoon 2,429]

So according to the Aeroflow website the 1/2 inch line is 7.9mm https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/hardline/aluminium-stainless-steel-hard-line/af66-3001blk  which when converted from mm's to imperial fraction is 5/16 which I believe is what the standard internal diameter of the standard hard line. So therefore if I'm reading it correctly there is no size difference from the black Aeroflow to the standard size hard line.

 

Ford_man I do have an aftermarket fuel pump which is rated at 140gph but there is no information as to which size line this is through. So regardless of what the pump is rated at surely the fuel line needs to support the flow rate of the pump for it to reach it's advertised rate of flow? So if the pump is listed as a 3/8 inch pump surely you should add 3/8 ID fuel line to accompany it?

[hendrixhc 10,921]

dont forget to factor in the fuel fittings and mounting clamps with the braided as well. They do add quite a bit to the final cost, depending on how fancy you want to get.

 

I used a combo of braided and the original hard line and it was still a bit pricey. Average fitting is $15.

[NZXD 2,328]

I ran braided stainless PTFE in -6AN, which equals 3/8 inch in size or 9mm.

 

From my research the PTFE will last a million years, never rot or become brittle, however it has a limit to how much you can bend it, for example it will not do a tight 90 degree bend, you will need a few AN fittings specific for the PTFE line.

 

The reason I went for it was that I needed to upgrade for the 5/16 hard line, it can handle EFI pressures in case I want to run EFI one day, and it can handle modern fuels such as E85 etc.

 

Wasn't cheap with all the fittings.

 

 

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[NZXD 2,328]

[wagoon 2,429]

Also the basic way to calculate the sizing of AN sizing is to put the number into a fraction over 16;

 

-4 = 4/16 = 1/4 inch

-6 = 6/16 = 3/8 inch

-8 = 8/16 = 1/2 inch

-10 = 10/16 = 5/8 inch

-12 = 12/16 = 3/4 inch

-14 14/16 = 7/8 inch

 

Etc etc

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If you have a look at the actual advertised size it isn't as bigger as you think. -7AN from what I can see is a true 3/8 internal diameter with -6 being smaller and -8 being bigger.

-6AN https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/af100-06-1m

-8AN https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/af100-08-1m

 

This is a conversion chart showing imperial fraction to decimal conversion as well as metric equivalenthttp://www.hamuniverse.com/antfrac.html

 

So going off the Aeroflow website and using the above conversion chart the -6AN internal diameter is actually halfway between 5/16 and 3/8

[NZXD 2,328]

 

Also the basic way to calculate the sizing of AN sizing is to put the number into a fraction over 16;

 

 

-4 = 4/16 = 1/4 inch

 

-6 = 6/16 = 3/8 inch

 

-8 = 8/16 = 1/2 inch

 

-10 = 10/16 = 5/8 inch

 

-12 = 12/16 = 3/4 inch

 

-14 14/16 = 7/8 inch

 

 

Etc etc

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

If you have a look at the actual advertised size it isn't as bigger as you think. -7AN from what I can see is a true 3/8 internal diameter with -6 being smaller and -8 being bigger.

-6AN https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/af100-06-1m

-8AN https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/af100-08-1m

 

This is a conversion chart showing imperial fraction to decimal conversion as well as metric equivalenthttp://www.hamuniverse.com/antfrac.html

 

So going off the Aeroflow website and using the above conversion chart the -6AN internal diameter is actually halfway between 5/16 and 3/8

Cheers for clearing that up.

 

-6an is 11/32.

 

 

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[wagoon 2,429]

I'm learning as Im going mate so all good, and only reason I noticed size different was by companies listing actual size. But the one thing Im not sure on now is just about every product listed as 3/8 line has a smaller internal diameter than 3/8, so I dont know whether to buy what everyone calls 3/8 line or buy actual 3/8ID line? Does factory 5/16 line have an ID of 5/16? Guess if it doesnt it will be smaller so then the advertised 3/8 line will be a larger increase in size.

[ando76 4,354]

Yes watch the internal size of your braid.  It is a common stuff up people make.  The I/D of it is actually way smaller than normal hose.

 

If you want a really cheap alternative to run e85, meth and even fuel go to Masters.  They have clear plastic reinforced hose.  It has a blue and yellow strip running down the side of it.  It is actually food grade hose and had many applications - including plumbing up 'post mix' alcoholic drink dispenses.

 

It is actually tolerant to alcohol (methanol and e85) and also normal fuel.  They don't market it as fuel hose directly but if you look up above their display (most masters stores are a generic set up so it should be there) you will see that it is actually a fuel hose.

 

It comes in a 10mm ID and it is dirt cheap at $2.30 p/m.  Now you may think that it will go hard and brittle, well my mate pogo ran it in his skid car for many many years.  15 to be precise.  I actually have the hose in the shed as I pulled the pump set up out of the car and it is still flexible.  Pretty amazing really.

 

Yeah it doesn't look as flash as braid and personally I love my braid and anodised fittings but this stuff is bloody cheap and does the job for a budget application.

[wagoon 2,429]

Ando will it put up with rocks and stuff hitting, guessing chucks of rubber would give it a decent beating. No really fussed on looks clearly by the state of my car, but I do like to get what I need to know it will be up to the job and last. Might drop into masters this week and have a look. Cheers

[wagoon 2,429]

Is scritineering for burnout comps easier than racing? Just wondering if they might fail the car cause they don't know the clear tube is proper fuel hose? Not sure if places like leyburn are funny about things they don'y know

[slydog 7,873]

I so can't answer any of this LOL

[ando76 4,354]

It is bloody durable stuff.  To be honest I reckon you would be better off with braid cause it just looks so so good and it lasts forever and a day. 

 

Scrutineering if about the same and honestly I doubt many people would pick it.  I think the clear plastic stuff may even have a higher burst pressure as it is braided and has two longitudinal ribs as well. 

[wagoon 2,429]

If it was just street I would definiatly buy the clear hose, but for the sake of $50 I would hate for some pencil head to knock the car back. Then I would be wasting entrance fee which is a lot more than $50.

 

So for the second question, does it matter the internal size of the hose? Could I get 1/2 inch if I wanted without causing issue?

[ando76 4,354]

Well you will be wanting a bit more internal capacity than stock.  I use line with 1/2 internal on my meth engines.  slightly smaller than that will be the go for normal fuel and e85. 

[wagoon 2,429]

So I went to Masters hardware today and bought the clear fuel line that Ando suggested previously. If you want to know the details of the hose that is rated at 203 psi head over to my build thread here http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/4428-solid-roller-cam-xe-spak/page-17