Hitting bump stops!

[Squid 55]

Thanks!!!

[broken-wheel 659]

another option is to run the mustang damper with the mustang hat, you can get some really nice dampers from the state at half price, even Koni but you'll have to run their hat

 

 

I have used full superpro all around before and had no issues, it was actually very very compliant. I'm going to take those videos with a grain of salt as a hyd damper is only good for cruising, you start going through the bends or a track and the oil heats up and you're back in the pits.

[SPArKy_Dave 8,897]

Squid, what you need are 'SHORT BODY' shocks,

not just short stroke.

 

As you can see by the Koni's, the SP4's are short body.

Then maybe some shock spacers too, would be good.

 

If you're going to play on the UltraLow team, you'll need Koni's or Bilsteins for it to be any good.

 

Unfortunately, there's no getting out of it with cheap run of the mill shocks, like Monroe, KYB or Gabriels, etc.

[bear351c 10,273]

Squid, what you need are 'SHORT BODY' shocks,

not just short stroke.

 

As you can see by the Koni's, the SP4's are short body.

Then maybe some shock spacers too, would be good.

 

If you're going to play on the UltraLow team, you'll need Koni's or Bilsteins for it to be any good.

 

Unfortunately, there's no getting out of it with cheap run of the mill shocks, like Monroe, KYB or Gabriels, etc.

 

This. ^ ^ ^

 

Save up and buy quality. They're re-buildable too.!

[gerg 10,871]

Konis for the win.... A long-term investment as they are rebuildable and to any spec you like.

 

My 2c on the "Shelby drop"..... If the spring perch is roughly halfway along the arm, and the ball joint is the fixed end (connected to the ground) then moving the pivot point for the arm bush downward 1" would move the spring perch down roughly 1/2", lowering the car by this amount. Not a bad result for the price of a drillbit, and Shelby definitely had a clue about doing stuff to cars. Has the added bonus of increased camber change throughout travel.

[broken-wheel 659]

it was Klaus Arning who came up with the solution and yes it will drop by half inch without any bad side effects

[SPArKy_Dave 8,897]

it was Klaus Arning who came up with the solution and yes it will drop by half inch without any bad side effects

 

It's also about creating a Virtual pivot point in the front suspension, which is non-existent at anywhere near standard height.

[Squid 55]

Thanks everyone for your help!!

I'll go with the koni's and maybe some spacers and we'll be all sweet!!

Then maybe the Shelby drop!

I back to Repco today to sort out the shocks that they gave me being wrong! They're giving me a credit (even though they've be used slightly) which is great!

[78xcgxl 241]

Not a great idea for a road vehicle.

These old girls need the pliability of rubber bushes.

Going urethane will only make the NVH worse, and at a reduced bush lifespan too.

 

Never be tempted to run urethane upper front shock bushes.

They're known to tear the spotwelds from the shock tops, thus pushing the shock rod into the bonnet.

 

I disagree with you on not running urethane bushes on a road vehicle. Both my car run all urethane and both ride really nice, far better than rubber bushes. Sure NVH is slightly increased but really not that much from what i have experience. I find wide lower profile wheels and tyres cause far more NVH than urethane bushes alone. As long as they are greased and installed properly they won't give you any trouble.

 

The trade off for a slightly increased NVH with gains in far better road feel,  tight suspension and far better handling is worth it.

 

I do agree with not running urethane shock bushes they are a stupid idea and are going good for sheering the shock mount bolts.

[broken-wheel 659]

ok so on previous car there were rose joints for the dampers and nothing broke

 

if you can't find a good price on Koni's locally then buy the US mustang ones and use their hat, they used to be cheap but with the dollar going down who knows

[Squid 55]

I can get some for $400 off eBay?

[broken-wheel 659]

yeah .... these

[Squid 55]

That's the ones

[broken-wheel 659]

another good one is the Bilstein 82DA-18045CA, they were the ESP ones and can be easily rebuildable 

[Nath 1,975]

My two cents, having just done most of my bushes in Nolathane and regretting it a bit, is anything that goes left or right, do it in Urethane because tighter will be better (steering, sway bars etc) and it won't impact on comfort that much. Anything that goes up and down, do it in rubber because it will ride a bit softer. Unless you're taking corners at 130km/h I don't really see why the tiny increase in handling is worth the shittier ride over bumps and crappy roads.

[gerg 10,871]

One trick I sort of remember with the radius rod donuts is to compromise and do one side of the rod in urethane and the other in rubber. I can't remember exactly which goes where but I'd assume the softer one goes on the front (outside) and harder on the rear (inside) to reduce deflection when the arm loads up on turns, but still has some compliance. The softer bush on the front can compress as the arm is forced backwards when hitting a bump.

[broken-wheel 659]

same for idler arm, hard bush body rubber on link

[78xcgxl 241]

same for idler arm, hard bush body rubber on link

 

This isn't done for a comfort purpose actually. The reason why all the new idler arms are one side urethane and the other side rubber is because the rubber acts like a return spring that helps center the steering after going around a corner. This is why in the workshop manual it states that the steering wheel must be in the straight ahead position before tightening the idler arm bolts. If you look at the idler arm bush on the rubber side it has teeth that grab into the steering leakage and thus creating tension when the steering wheel is turned.

[gerg 10,871]

 

it was Klaus Arning who came up with the solution and yes it will drop by half inch without any bad side effects

 

 

 

It's also about creating a Virtual pivot point in the front suspension, which is non-existent at anywhere near standard height.

 

Yes this is a major built-in characteristic of 70s-era cars, famously demonstrated in the HQ Holden. The American engineers (who dictated GM policy to the Aussies) insisted that all passenger cars have understeer to make the passengers feel safer, at the expense of driver enjoyment. They turned what should have been a superior-handling car (with coil spring rear!) to the Falcon, and turned it into a sloppy mess of a yank barge, but scaled down. Fords were better, but still not great.

 

A lot of those cars that have built-in understeer achieve it with positive camber gain under compression (ie tipping the wheel out under load). This is the opposite to what you want for best roadholding.

 

Moving the top arm pivot point creates, like sparky Dave said, a virtual pivot point in the geometry where if you draw an imaginary line through the top and bottom arms, they intersect somewhere around the opposite wheel or a little outside. Stock geometry has them never intersecting at all.

[bear351c 10,273]

Aaah yes, the handling characteristics of the humble HQ.........the stuff of legend.

[Grimmy 312]

Thinking along the lines of all this stuff .

If I was to move the spring/shock perch outward on the uca , this would increase the spring and shock "pressure" relative to how far outward it was moved ?

Thinking along the lines of leverage

[Squid 55]

Repco are going to credit me for the wrong springs

[broken-wheel 659]

cool

 

now give Kevin 02 9556 1799 a call and get him to make you a set of springs exactly how you want them, they are $260/pair and he'll get you to get the ruler out and measure hub to fender and listen to him, he knows his shit, specially if you get Koni's

[gerg 10,871]

Thinking along the lines of all this stuff .

 

If I was to move the spring/shock perch outward on the uca , this would increase the spring and shock "pressure" relative to how far outward it was moved ?

 

Thinking along the lines of leverage

 

Theoretically yeah but in practice would introduce other problems like reduced suspension travel, (with more leverage comes less movement), spring clearance on the bump stop plate, spring angle on the top of the tower, plus where to put it on the arm itself.

 

With all these potental issues and the amount you can actually move it may make the whole job not worth the trouble for the gains it might give.

[Squid 55]

Woops, I meant the Wrong shocks!

Also, I've got koni's on the way