Stumps 311 Posted January 28, 2014 Looking at rebuilding the old EFI crossflow in a ZK Fairlane that I have acquired and would like some opinions and advice on the build, the engine will be running straight LPG and is intended for a cruiser and highway, so I'm looking for decent bottom end and mid range. I have come up with the following idea 4.1 litre bored 60 thou 10.5:1 comp ratio Head reco'd + valve grind and valve seat job Full balance, block decked High volume oil pump Camtech CT142 517(A) 218 IN/EX@50 thou duration EFI manifold IMPCO 225 mixer, B2 convertor Factory dizzy kitted up with an MSD ignition system BW40 auto with standard convertor 2.92 or 3.23 BW diff I welcome all opinions and Idea's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumps 311 Posted January 28, 2014 Oh can anyone tell me if Pod filters with out an airbox is legal in NSW, I saw some pics of Perky's setup and it looks pretty sweet and simple, just not sure about the filter that's all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLO247 1,713 Posted January 28, 2014 Stock oil pump is the go from what I have read or you will have problems. I'm sure it'll be explained soon by someone who knows more than me.\ We need pics of this ZK too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unfamilia 1,938 Posted January 28, 2014 For cruiser and hwy I agree no hi flow pump needed. Also dont go too wild on cam with lpg. They are sensitive to draw signal needed to meter in fuel from my experience (not in falcons) Same with pod filtets. They prefer enclosed filters. For some reason they perform a bit better with a little intake restriction not cold air ram tube induction. My experiences anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adrianphu123 73 Posted January 28, 2014 Go with a T5 if you can find it and a 3.27 or 3.23 diff. You'll be turning round 2000rpm in 5th gear at 100km/h. Im running a 200 mixer and it exits at a right angle unlike the 225 which goes in and out in a straight line so intake piping is easier. Goes nicely with the T5 .and 3.27diff gears. One thing to consider with piping the intake that way, the power steering reservoir might get in the way. Im running manual steering so its not an issue. With the EFI manifold, if you intend on running straight LPG for good, use welch plugs to block off the injector holes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 28, 2014 If the MSD you're referring to is the programmable type, then it's well worth stretching to that for your your LPG setup. They might only be 200 bucks more or so than the plain one but seeing as has needs a totally different curve to petrol, it will benefit more than anything else. 1 slydog reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted January 28, 2014 Standard stall and auto will hate that camshaft aswell and why bore 60th? Only need to bore to clean bore not mad over size as it will give no more performance just a block you can't use again.Mine is only 50th because thats what size custom piston combo comes in so it had to be done. That said I would get the head ported a tad to enlarge the inlet in the right spots and clean the match porting up as gas is more expansive than petrol and likes a bigger runner/manifold size.Will gain some there but it make it more efficient aswell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted January 28, 2014 Never put a high volume pump on a crossflow - they are just not needed - the stock oil pump is WAY to efficient as it is. Set it up with a higher relief setting and tidy up the pump face to gear clearance and that is all that is needed. as sly has pointed out - don't bore it to 60 thou straight up - it is a waste of a block and remember they are not making them anymore. There will come a time where decent blocks (especially 86DA) will be hard to find so why destroy one. I don't have a great deal of LPG experience but a 6AL2 Programmable is a big step forward - especially as gerg has said. I know he loves his. They are a great bit of kit. Not sure if the balance job is really needed in a street application but if you intend to flog it then it is not a bad idea. IMHO a proper balance involves all of the rotating mass - balancer, drive pulleys, clutch and flywheel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumps 311 Posted January 28, 2014 cool, thanks for the info guys. I didnt know that about the oil pump, the last couple of clevo's i had built had a high volume oil pump so I just assume that it was the go. Sly I have a couple of other cams in mind as well ,CT-503B 110(A) (208 DEG @50 thou) and a Crow 14776 (204in/214ex @50 thou) what do you think? The 6AL2 was what I had in mind, I have heard good things about them. Ando, as for the balance, well I do drive my cars pretty hard at times so all the rotating bits are going to be balanced to ensure reliabiliy, do you think a line hone would be neccasary? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 29, 2014 I wouldn't even run a HV pump on a Clevo, unless running loose race clearances, hyd lifters and no oil restrictors. All you do is empty the sump quicker and fill the top end of the motor when revving it out. Stresses the oil pump drive too, especially when cold. I've blown off 4 oil filters when cold starting mine, which I suspect was fitted with a HV pump. Crossys would be no different. Make sure you specify 6AL-Programmable and run a locked dizzy. So much better than the 6AL-2, which is just a plain spark amplifier and works off your petrol curve. Gas needs more initial and less total timing. A programmable one is able to be tailored to your cam, fuel type, running temperature and driving style. Running a standard petrol curve on gas will always be a compromise of either retarded initial timing (to get total correct) or advancing initial (and having too much total). Gas takes shitloads of timing to get it to ping and you'll be pulling your hair out trying to figure out the difference between advanced and retarded going by the feel of it. They both feel very similar with gas. If I had such a luxury on my LPG Corty I'd be happier than a dog with two dicks. Build an LPG donk with a cam one or two sizes up from the petrol equivalent. As said already, the gas takes up more space in the inlet tract so the engine has to breathe harder to make the same power. I'd run the biggest valves possible and take some out of the throat too. Work on 20% more flow for the same power and you'll be about right. Example: BA 6 cyl petrol: 182 kW BA 6 cyl LPG : 152 kW Gas version uses same head and manifold. 1 bear351c reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted January 29, 2014 I think pull it down see whats wrong and rectify...if the bores are a little out of shape or have marks that need machining to fix then bore & hone em.Replace what ever bearings it needs,check and machine crank if needed,zero deck height and bottom end is done.Then re-assemble...after that move on to cyl head which is where you can make some HP while still staying road mannered safe. 6AL2 Programmable is the MSD Gerg and Ando are talking about...a basic 6AL2 is non timing altering. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted January 29, 2014 I run a standard volume oil pump (modified as I have already highlighted) on my race crossflows with 2.5 on the big ends and 3 thou on the mains and I still have 65psi oil pressure at idle. That is how efficient the standard volume pump is - It can pump 65psi at idle even with that much leakage. Stock pumps relieve at 50psi so you can see just how much head room there is in the pumps. If you don't adjust that relief pressure they are continually relieving on an engine with stock bearing clearances. So why would you want to pump more oil than that. It is just backwards thinking on a Ford. Might work on a Chev but no place on a ford. I know of a nat asp Cleveland stroker that was at summernats that emptied a 7.5litre sump and killed the engine - all because of the stupid high volume pump. as gerg has pointed out the oil gets pumped to the top end and cant get back to the sump quick enough and bang is the result. If you like to rev them then a balance is a good idea. I have never line bored a x-flow but Cam has done it on my new hypo roller cam motor. 1 gerg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGP 14 Posted April 16, 2014 Looking at rebuilding the old EFI crossflow in a ZK Fairlane that I have acquired and would like some opinions and advice on the build, the engine will be running straight LPG and is intended for a cruiser and highway, so I'm looking for decent bottom end and mid range. I have come up with the following idea 4.1 litre bored 60 thou 10.5:1 comp ratio Head reco'd + valve grind and valve seat job Full balance, block decked High volume oil pump Camtech CT142 517(A) 218 IN/EX@50 thou duration EFI manifold IMPCO 225 mixer, B2 convertor Factory dizzy kitted up with an MSD ignition system BW40 auto with standard convertor 2.92 or 3.23 BW diff I welcome all opinions and Idea's Hey mate did you go ahead with the build? any results to report? cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt_lamb_160 252 Posted May 2, 2014 The 225 mixer will be fully open at 3,500rpm. It will be ok til around 4200, but will kill HP after that. It is too small for the 218deg cam. The 208deg cam, EFI manifold and 2.75-2.92 gears will love the FWY. Perfect FWY combo in my opinion. Works well enough with up to 3.27 gears. 1 slydog reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,272 Posted May 3, 2014 Don't use hi volume oil pumps. Even Crane Cams advised me against it on my Clevo. Do you have an engine built, yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumps 311 Posted May 12, 2014 Decided to strip the car for parts, I managed to score a 79 XD S pak with a worked 351 in it, will be a much better car to do up. 1 bear351c reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
