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Thom's 4.0l thread

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Cheers Bear, and Gerg and Thom for your input.
Much Appreciated.
I wanted to do the block in my ute as its matching numbers but that will leave me with no transport, so looks like I might have to have the short block in the spares ute done.

Only thing I'm worried about is its been sitting for 9 years without a head on it, under the spare ute bonnet.


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On 6/18/2013 at 12:37 AM, Thom said:

Ok so a few people have been chasing info on 4.0ls lately, so over some period of Time I will start posting what I know about 4.0ls as I have played with them for years , this first post is taken directly from a post i made in ph351's thread earlier today,<br /> Ef and early El are the same, late El.used a Au style head and crank, without the longer con rods (if you see an El engine with the prefix wr2axxx cat into it it's an Au style head with 1.8:1 ratio rockers compared to the earlier 2:1 ratio) and the camshafts don't interchange between the two ratios, Ef or El cam be set up for a distributor or coil packs (ea- can also be setup for coil packs but it requires a Ef/El timing cover, also to change from v belts to sepentine belt requires Ef/El timing cover and balancer *note v belts cannot be used with a Ef/El timing cover with stock brackets) pre Au: ea's have the strongest rods, ef's have the best crank (12 counterweights compared to 8 on all other e series) Ef/El blocks are better as they have oil restrictors in the top of the block to prevent to much oil in the head at high rpm (makes for more stable valve train above 4000rpm) ea cam is the biggest for made for a 4.0l (except xg xr6 but good luck finding one) and cannot be used on a Au without custom rockers, xr6 head use standard intake valves with a larger exhaust valve, they were also a different casting from a standard head with similar intake Ports but a much better exhaust port (the best xr6 heads to get have the casting no 93dt and 94Dt, the best of the non xr6 heads have the casting 94da). Au egas engines use better crank and rods than a standard petrol engine (also slightly higher comp, and an Ef xr6 head on an Au egas short nets 10:1 comp) Au engines can take a BA turbo crank and rods without machine work, Au rods are longer than e series with a hypertectic pistons (same advantage as using 3.3 rods in a 4.1 or 302 rods in a 351) a really nice Combo (what some of you will remember I had in my xh) is Au egas short motor, Ef xr6 head, ea cam, El intake with a set of extractors and a tune made 178 rwkw for less than $600<br /><br />

 Hello Thom,Just been Scoureing your Threads on the SOHC 4.0.  ?? Now if you managed to get 178 rwkw from those changes. How many rwkw/s would one get from a standard used old 4.0 sohc?  Just trying to get an idea of contrast. Thanks Hope everyone is Enjoying Election Mania.Searley.

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 Hello Thom,Just been Scoureing your Threads on the SOHC 4.0.  ?? Now if you managed to get 178 rwkw from those changes. How many rwkw/s would one get from a standard used old 4.0 sohc?  Just trying to get an idea of contrast. Thanks Hope everyone is Enjoying Election Mania.Searley.
A really good one probably around 120-130ish rwkw depending on the dyno

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asking here, because i did a search for "dipstick" in this thread and it didn't come up. 

 

(hindsight, it might be "dip stick"

 

anyway, What do you need to do with the dipstick tube if using an EF engine (had BBM) in an XG (using the log manifold) 

and you've thrown out the XG engine already.. to pillage the correct one. 

 (asking for a mate, apparently it doesn't work with the log manifold) 

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asking here, because i did a search for "dipstick" in this thread and it didn't come up. 
 
(hindsight, it might be "dip stick"
 
anyway, What do you need to do with the dipstick tube if using an EF engine (had BBM) in an XG (using the log manifold) 
and you've thrown out the XG engine already.. to pillage the correct one. 
 (asking for a mate, apparently it doesn't work with the log manifold) 
That is correct, the dip sticks are different depending on intake, I think from memory (a 14 year old one at this point) a log dip stick can be used with a bbm but not the other way around, if being very careful you may be able to bend the bbm dip stick to fit the log manifold but some butchery may have to happen to the mounting bracket

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5 hours ago, Thom said:

if being very careful you may be able to bend the bbm dip stick to fit the log manifold but some butchery may have to happen to the mounting bracket

Butchery was mentioned :)

i think a wrecker trip will be needed.. 

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Here's an old video circa 2007 with my phone taped to the steering wheel running from zero to 180 kph (i was inventive back then) of my pick a part special 4.0 it made 144rwkw around this time, and it made 177 rwkw with a tune later on (video quality is representative of its time) it was in my xh ute with an ex taxi au short motor (from memory had more than 860,xxx ks), ef xr6 head (94 dt) ea cam, el bbm intake, super cat extractors, crow vernier cam gear, yella terra billet flywheel, high flow cat 2.5 inch exhaust, t5 and 3.45 gears, it was a lot of fun to an 18 year old me, I put over 180,xxxks on that engine before it let go when the stock valve train decided that 2 years of turning to 7000rpm was enough and it dropped a valve, after it was tuned the rev limiter was set to 7200rpm and it saw it every time it was in 1st gear (18 year old me was hard on the equipment) and sometimes more often than that, I wouldn't mind getting another e-series one day and replicating this combo, although it would be really fun in something lightweight like an xp falcon

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Thread revival on this,
I've chatted to Thom, and might make a separate conversion thread section as it's been a big read to get the basic needs for just a later engine swap 
I'll update this with more once it's fitted within the next few weeks.,  EA to EL engines are getting rarer in the wreckers, and this AU engine was chosen due to listed low kms (176,000) and AU head gasket is better than a risk on anything older possibly cooked due to head gasket issues. 

 

a mate of mine is about to (hopefully) put an AU series 2 engine in an XG

current parts gathering and testing has got the engine mounted with the following. (BA alt mounts same as AU2/3 and he had it on a barra engine he was considering using)

AU2 engine
XG dissy
XH air con bracket
XH air con compressor(need custom hoses to work on XG?)
XH belt tensioner
BA alt(because he had it)
AU spec water pump and power steering

will have XG exhaust manifold and XG intake
XG thermostat housing/temp sender

Tuff mounts Sway bar for AU/BA

 

 

some notes @SPArKy_Dave might be able to confirm? will this patch loom allow a BA alternator to be used in an XG with AU 2 engine, or an AU 2/3 car?https://www.efisolutions.com.au/3-pin-alternator-patch-harness?gad_source=1&amp;gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhJL2pKHnigMVVw6DAx0rLzuREAQYASABEgLvzfD_BwE

105-098.jpg?20210309031642

 

 


Belt is yet to be confirmed, but it might need to be a custom length, however after looking up the sizes. estimated after measuring  this seems a close size 6PK2480

 

6PK2690 EL V8 shown in pics below way too big. 

6pk2380 AU Belt appears way too short when tested

6PK2400 XH belt also too short when tested

6PK2510 AU VCT (likely to be tested soon, will update this shortly) 

 

some photos that might help when i redo the conversion thread. 

Thom's engine back from page 1
It3fG1o.jpeg

 

XH air con bracket from today's conversionvr4rMKh.jpeg

 

the set up that would work if you were running a BBM (broad band manifold from EF to AU ) 
mHTvdIu.jpeg

 

log manifold doesn't clear the air con pump
k9uG51y.jpeg

 

this is the XH air con bracket and pump and tensioner with the log manifold from XG 
0AERKpO.jpeg

 

basically the above with front view (V8 belt fitted just to check the belt path doesn't cross the intake on throttle body)

DVSacpr.jpeg

 

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14 hours ago, deankxf said:

some notes @SPArKy_Dave might be able to confirm? will this patch loom allow a BA alternator to be used in an XG with AU 2 engine, or an AU 2/3 car?https://www.efisolutions.com.au/3-pin-alternator-patch-harness?gad_source=1&amp;gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhJL2pKHnigMVVw6DAx0rLzuREAQYASABEgLvzfD_BwE

 

So long as it's a two wire alternator, not the later 3 wire one

(refer patch harness pic with missing center pin)

 

Later BA/BF 3 wire alternators, are duty cycle controlled by the PCM.

 

Me personally, I'd avoid everything and just fix the XG engine

(new composite head gasket, with ARP head studs)

 

Even AU head on XG seems easier possibly?

(needs block machined to correct RA finish, to seal AU spec MLS head gasket)

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5 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

So long as it's a two wire alternator, not the later 3 wire one

(refer patch harness pic with missing center pin)

 

Later BA/BF 3 wire alternators, are duty cycle controlled by the PCM.

 

Me personally, I'd avoid everything and just fix the XG engine

(new composite head gasket, with ARP head studs)

 

Even AU head on XG seems easier possibly?

(needs block machined to correct RA finish, to seal AU spec MLS head gasket)

So that BA alt won't work in XG in 2 wires? What's the loom for?

 

 

Xg engine is cooked. Glazed bores head needs machining...$4000 reco? $172 for the AU engine that has an MLS gasket fitted seems cheaper even with the custom bits

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5 hours ago, deankxf said:

So that BA alt won't work in XG in 2 wires? What's the loom for?

 

Not sure?

If it's for the 3 wire one, maybe it just runs at full output, without any control?

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47 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

Not sure?

If it's for the 3 wire one, maybe it just runs at full output, without any control?

it seemed a risk, for not much extra an AU alternator was purchased and will be plug n play.

the 6PK2460 belt was purchased from repco ($20 dearer, but had the option to return if it didn't fit)
 


u4HrcHV.jpeg

 


bkbDDG5.jpeg

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6 hours ago, deankxf said:

$172 for the AU engine that has an MLS gasket fitted seems cheaper even with the custom bits

 

the bonus with setting up for AU engine.. is if it needs another down the track, they are far more common currently, without head gasket issues..

 

11 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

Me personally, I'd avoid everything and just fix the XG engine

(new composite head gasket, with ARP head studs)

would be interesting to see the cost differences.. assuming the engine wasn't fubar in the XG (rust from sitting with blown head gasket/full of water for months/years?) 

 

but this was initially done with an AU engine with intent for BARRA down the track, hence the tuff mounts sway bar ($400 ish, also clears the AU sump)

 

what else needs buying? (i'll add prices from Jollys price list later when i have time)
Belt.. probably similar cost to an EF -AU belt anyway.  $40 to $60 
XH air con bracket and compressor $

XH tensioner $
AU alternator used..  $50 ish
bit of splice with radiator hose to neck it down to the AU water pump outlet size. (probably is an adapter for it to buy) $

intake gasket needed $ 

 

 

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continuing on the the AU engine into XG

this is an XG radiator with BF Fan mounted (looks to have some trimming done) 
i'll update/edit any findings. 
this should be running in the next day or so. 

 

1VQWbRj.jpeg

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continuing on the the AU engine into XG

this is an XG radiator with BF Fan mounted (looks to have some trimming done) 
i'll update/edit any findings. 
this should be running in the next day or so. 

 

1VQWbRj.jpeg

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