ando76

Thanks mate, that's reassuring and timely as I was actually looking at something similar to use as a daily with the motor currently in the ute. I'll have a read of your thread for reference.
 
I guess the things going in my favour are that the ute is currently (and will remain) manual, and I'm investing time to set it up properly re valvetrain, diff ratio, etc. Realistically I suppose I can probably run a lot more cam than I am looking at.
 
Rule number 1 with the bullet for this is to keep it reliable and practical as a daily driver. I live in the middle of nowhere and can't afford a breakdown due to something I can't remedy on the roadside with basic tools. I tend to have a 'breakdown bucket' at all times, literally a plastic bucket with spanners, screwdrivers, shifters and vice grips, wire, zipties and duct tape, a spare fuel pump and spark plugs, plus fuel filter, JB weld and extra oil. If I can't fix what happened with that then I guess its put the broken bit in the bucket and hitch a ride time.
 
Cheers all, and Merry Christmas!

Don't be overly worried about how driveable with that size of cam(235-241), i was & found was worried about nothing.
my XF utes untuned QFT 600V/S with Camtech 237@0.050" 550" 108LSA hyd cam, stock auto 2.92 diff, and still drives around as nice as when it had the old engine in it,

very informative.
I'm enjoying watching this come together

It doesn't have to be expensive.  You just have to have a good plan and formula and stick to it.  Doing things 3 or 4 times over does make it expensive. 
 
Luke's Cortina runs 7.1 over the 1/8 (after a tune) & 11.3 over the 1/4 (untuned) with 3.45gears. Yes it's light but it's a simple package that just works. I've detailed that package several times on here and his car is proof. Flat tappet, single four barrel with a dizzy. It hasn't been back to the 1/4 since being tuned because Luke races pro stock bike and that's his current focus. It's improved 2 tenths over the 1/8 so the next 1/4 pass with tune and gears should be interesting. 
 
The 11.3 is showing 260 Moroso hp.  Exactly what is needed to run that mid 12 in the xf when everything else is right. Luke's head was done before we developed the latest ports so it would be just over the 210cfm mark. 
 
Spend your our money wisely and you will achieve your goal. 

It's really down to the individual builder.  As with most things in engine building everyone has there own theories of what works and what doesn't. 
The biggest deck height I'd ever have on an engine would be .010 with zero being the norm. I prefer a slight dished piston over a flat top, but sometimes you need a flat top. Chamber shape can be modified to assist in relieving comp. 
 
i guess it just comes down to the builders own theories and experience. 

Yes a plan there was no plan b4 just buy everything chunky and hope it delivers

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No good. Zoran should be able to flow it for you and then you know where it's at and can make a plan from there 

Should be a few down there mate.  Zoran at Zok Performance would be my pick. Smart dude. 

It's really down to the individual builder.  As with most things in engine building everyone has there own theories of what works and what doesn't. 
The biggest deck height I'd ever have on an engine would be .010 with zero being the norm. I prefer a slight dished piston over a flat top, but sometimes you need a flat top. Chamber shape can be modified to assist in relieving comp. 
 
i guess it just comes down to the builders own theories and experience. 

It doesn't have to be expensive.  You just have to have a good plan and formula and stick to it.  Doing things 3 or 4 times over does make it expensive. 
 
Luke's Cortina runs 7.1 over the 1/8 (after a tune) & 11.3 over the 1/4 (untuned) with 3.45gears. Yes it's light but it's a simple package that just works. I've detailed that package several times on here and his car is proof. Flat tappet, single four barrel with a dizzy. It hasn't been back to the 1/4 since being tuned because Luke races pro stock bike and that's his current focus. It's improved 2 tenths over the 1/8 so the next 1/4 pass with tune and gears should be interesting. 
 
The 11.3 is showing 260 Moroso hp.  Exactly what is needed to run that mid 12 in the xf when everything else is right. Luke's head was done before we developed the latest ports so it would be just over the 210cfm mark. 
 
Spend your our money wisely and you will achieve your goal. 

Look at the engine you are building and decide on the most cost effective way. There will be positives and negatives each way. For a given engine, example a 250 crossflow, a zero-decked flat top might give you too much compression with even a stock head, but a stock piston will give you only average compression with a stock head. If you want something in the middle a mild dish and machined head may be the way to go.
 
There is some evidence floating around that a mild dish helps centre the force of the combustion and helps with initial squish and also pre-ignition. This passes the common sense test in that you will get some good charge distribution from the narrow sides forcing charge into the centre as the piston rises, and have a friendlier shaped combustion chamber floor with regard to pre-ignition.
 
The shape of a chamber is more important than the volume, but there is a limit where a good shape and unshrouded valves of appropriate sizes can all co-exist. Generally this is a nice semi-hemispherical chamber with rounded, smoothed contours focussing on the valves edges.
 
Short answer? See what is reasonably available for your engine and go from there.

Thanks mate, duly noted. I'm starting to think a bit more that way but again I'm also not looking to run 10's or even 11's. Mid 12's would be plenty for me - enough to have a play at the track with some V8 gear and not look shamefully slow. Low 12's would be a bonus but I expect the engine won't be the only thing holding me back by that point.
 
 
Good reading, cheers for the link mate. Nice ride!
 
 
Nah not much. Cheap ute, an engine to build while I drive it and sort the gremlins, and a whole lot of elbow grease by yours truely. I'm not a mechanic by trade but have tackled most jobs so far by myself. This is why I'm starting a year out - the magic triangle: Lotsa time / Lotsa money / Lotsa effort. Pick two and you may not need the other! 
 
Cost list so far:
 
$1000 - ute with reco 250 / 4spd / HD clutch / lotsa rims
$250 - donor XF - motor, radiator, spare trans / housing / flywheel etc
$240 - set of sunraysias in 15x7
$100 - new tonneau cover
$100 - basic service (coolant/filters/oil/plugs)
$50 - new tail lights
$50 - new hardline for fuel system
$100 - new fuel pump
$600 - Aussiespeed manifold
$600 - NX Mainline nitrous kit including plate, AN4 line, etc
------------
$3090 total so far
 
Budget about a grand for the camshaft, rockers and pushrods, another 200 in machining the head, 700 in M/T ET Street's, 150 for new diff gears and all I've got left is the carby... which I probably already have. Call it about another 1200 and I'm set. So whats that 4290 bucks? Not nothing but certainly far from big bucks, only thing missing is a decent ignition. If you have a place to work, some basic tools and a phone with the 'net you can get any job done.
 
 - boingk
 

One has to wonder why you'd even consider using 7/16 stud mount roller rockers for such little lift. The reality is that Yella Terra rate their 5/16 bolt ons to 600lbs of open pressure!!  No guide plates required, no additional machining costs. I've run 5/16 bolt in the real world for many years and never once pulled a rocker thread. That's in consistent high rpm engines that compete in endurance Motorsport and make decent snot.  254@.050 .584" lift Cams.  Secret is good spring control and correct spring pressures. 
 
So without all the pissing competitions about lift, duration, compression and all that, let's look at this with real data and science.  
 
Your stated goal is to run mid 12's (with spray) in a daily driven xf ute, so lets look at the data and facts.  
 
* An xf ute weighs 1350kgs - 2976 lbs, which incidentaly is 120kgs heavier than a crossflow equipped TE cortina in street trim.
* to run a 12.5 second pass in a 2976lb vehicle -  you'd need 260 moroso hp (ref. Moroso speed calculator). 
* a 230@.050 camshaft with a good cylinder head (210+ Cfm) and comp around 11:1 will make 1 hp/cube at the tyres in a manual,    .78/ cube in an auto with a fair stall.  I built a Buick v6 with a 215@.050 that went 214rwhp thru a stalled auto. Good head and 10.5:1 comp. 
* a 100 shot of nitrous is a real world 100rwhp gain.  Yes, it's not Street legal having any nitrous component hooked up, but in a ute you could easily hide the bottle lines etc. 
 
Now thats all assuming decent car set up and hook, but your own goal states to 'eventually' run mid 12's.  So in essence a 230@ .050 with good head and comp and a shot of gas should be more than capable of running mid 12's, provided the set up is good and the car gets the power and torque to the ground. 
 
It all comes down to how much street you intend on doing and how much drag. Also how much your prepared to live with in relation to everyday driveability.  I have customers that street drive 254@.050 Cams and love them. Josh recently drove his corty from Glen Innis to Yamba and back for a rod run. 3 hours each way, good cruise manners etc etc that's with 3.7 gears.  Pat drives his from Port Douglas to Cairns regularly and loves it - his has 3.45 gears.  Ive got a crow hydraulic in the Mad Scientist xflow.  It's a 619 I had lying around 226-232@.050 on 110. It has a nice chop at idle and would I'd say is livable idle and manners. 10.8:1 comp.  next year we will find out what sort of snot it makes.  
 
I think your on the right track track but I would say, don't be scared of putting some compression in her.  With the ally head and a good chamber shape you'll have no detonation issues. Bit more static will help with dynamic when you get around the 230@.@50 and above range. 
 
Good igniton control (especially with nitrous), a proper dyno tune by a good operator, some attention to suspension and set up and should be well on your way.  Either way, have fun with it and enjoy it. 
 
 
 
 
 

One has to wonder why you'd even consider using 7/16 stud mount roller rockers for such little lift. The reality is that Yella Terra rate their 5/16 bolt ons to 600lbs of open pressure!!  No guide plates required, no additional machining costs. I've run 5/16 bolt in the real world for many years and never once pulled a rocker thread. That's in consistent high rpm engines that compete in endurance Motorsport and make decent snot.  254@.050 .584" lift Cams.  Secret is good spring control and correct spring pressures. 
 
So without all the pissing competitions about lift, duration, compression and all that, let's look at this with real data and science.  
 
Your stated goal is to run mid 12's (with spray) in a daily driven xf ute, so lets look at the data and facts.  
 
* An xf ute weighs 1350kgs - 2976 lbs, which incidentaly is 120kgs heavier than a crossflow equipped TE cortina in street trim.
* to run a 12.5 second pass in a 2976lb vehicle -  you'd need 260 moroso hp (ref. Moroso speed calculator). 
* a 230@.050 camshaft with a good cylinder head (210+ Cfm) and comp around 11:1 will make 1 hp/cube at the tyres in a manual,    .78/ cube in an auto with a fair stall.  I built a Buick v6 with a 215@.050 that went 214rwhp thru a stalled auto. Good head and 10.5:1 comp. 
* a 100 shot of nitrous is a real world 100rwhp gain.  Yes, it's not Street legal having any nitrous component hooked up, but in a ute you could easily hide the bottle lines etc. 
 
Now thats all assuming decent car set up and hook, but your own goal states to 'eventually' run mid 12's.  So in essence a 230@ .050 with good head and comp and a shot of gas should be more than capable of running mid 12's, provided the set up is good and the car gets the power and torque to the ground. 
 
It all comes down to how much street you intend on doing and how much drag. Also how much your prepared to live with in relation to everyday driveability.  I have customers that street drive 254@.050 Cams and love them. Josh recently drove his corty from Glen Innis to Yamba and back for a rod run. 3 hours each way, good cruise manners etc etc that's with 3.7 gears.  Pat drives his from Port Douglas to Cairns regularly and loves it - his has 3.45 gears.  Ive got a crow hydraulic in the Mad Scientist xflow.  It's a 619 I had lying around 226-232@.050 on 110. It has a nice chop at idle and would I'd say is livable idle and manners. 10.8:1 comp.  next year we will find out what sort of snot it makes.  
 
I think your on the right track track but I would say, don't be scared of putting some compression in her.  With the ally head and a good chamber shape you'll have no detonation issues. Bit more static will help with dynamic when you get around the 230@.@50 and above range. 
 
Good igniton control (especially with nitrous), a proper dyno tune by a good operator, some attention to suspension and set up and should be well on your way.  Either way, have fun with it and enjoy it. 
 
 
 
 
 

One has to wonder why you'd even consider using 7/16 stud mount roller rockers for such little lift. The reality is that Yella Terra rate their 5/16 bolt ons to 600lbs of open pressure!!  No guide plates required, no additional machining costs. I've run 5/16 bolt in the real world for many years and never once pulled a rocker thread. That's in consistent high rpm engines that compete in endurance Motorsport and make decent snot.  254@.050 .584" lift Cams.  Secret is good spring control and correct spring pressures. 
 
So without all the pissing competitions about lift, duration, compression and all that, let's look at this with real data and science.  
 
Your stated goal is to run mid 12's (with spray) in a daily driven xf ute, so lets look at the data and facts.  
 
* An xf ute weighs 1350kgs - 2976 lbs, which incidentaly is 120kgs heavier than a crossflow equipped TE cortina in street trim.
* to run a 12.5 second pass in a 2976lb vehicle -  you'd need 260 moroso hp (ref. Moroso speed calculator). 
* a 230@.050 camshaft with a good cylinder head (210+ Cfm) and comp around 11:1 will make 1 hp/cube at the tyres in a manual,    .78/ cube in an auto with a fair stall.  I built a Buick v6 with a 215@.050 that went 214rwhp thru a stalled auto. Good head and 10.5:1 comp. 
* a 100 shot of nitrous is a real world 100rwhp gain.  Yes, it's not Street legal having any nitrous component hooked up, but in a ute you could easily hide the bottle lines etc. 
 
Now thats all assuming decent car set up and hook, but your own goal states to 'eventually' run mid 12's.  So in essence a 230@ .050 with good head and comp and a shot of gas should be more than capable of running mid 12's, provided the set up is good and the car gets the power and torque to the ground. 
 
It all comes down to how much street you intend on doing and how much drag. Also how much your prepared to live with in relation to everyday driveability.  I have customers that street drive 254@.050 Cams and love them. Josh recently drove his corty from Glen Innis to Yamba and back for a rod run. 3 hours each way, good cruise manners etc etc that's with 3.7 gears.  Pat drives his from Port Douglas to Cairns regularly and loves it - his has 3.45 gears.  Ive got a crow hydraulic in the Mad Scientist xflow.  It's a 619 I had lying around 226-232@.050 on 110. It has a nice chop at idle and would I'd say is livable idle and manners. 10.8:1 comp.  next year we will find out what sort of snot it makes.  
 
I think your on the right track track but I would say, don't be scared of putting some compression in her.  With the ally head and a good chamber shape you'll have no detonation issues. Bit more static will help with dynamic when you get around the 230@.@50 and above range. 
 
Good igniton control (especially with nitrous), a proper dyno tune by a good operator, some attention to suspension and set up and should be well on your way.  Either way, have fun with it and enjoy it. 
 
 
 
 
 

Yep. Clarko has tooled up to make the wheels to suit x flow.  He also has the magnets and msd sensors. Clarko's performance. 
 
Ive got the boss to suit Romac and Ross balancers, and I'm sure Clarko can make one to,suit whatever balancer you have. 

Cool. Yeah different game with these to the good old mopar stuff. 
 
1"5/8 is about the biggest primary tubes you'll get from the usual places. Mark at Aussiespeed does a big bore 1"3/4 primary set where you build your own secondaries. I can highly recommend them as I've seen good gains.  In the new year I'll be doing some testing on various headers on the Mad Scientist x flow to show the differences. 
 
Stick to the 6al2 Programmable.  Trust me you won't regret it.  I've been beating on about how good they are for years on here and on my business Facebook page. Gerg will testify as to how much I beat on about them, but he has one and loves it. Especially important if it's going to be your everyday ride. With its load based (via map) timing graph you can get very good manners. 
 
Look forward to the build thread. 

Cool. Yeah different game with these to the good old mopar stuff. 
 
1"5/8 is about the biggest primary tubes you'll get from the usual places. Mark at Aussiespeed does a big bore 1"3/4 primary set where you build your own secondaries. I can highly recommend them as I've seen good gains.  In the new year I'll be doing some testing on various headers on the Mad Scientist x flow to show the differences. 
 
Stick to the 6al2 Programmable.  Trust me you won't regret it.  I've been beating on about how good they are for years on here and on my business Facebook page. Gerg will testify as to how much I beat on about them, but he has one and loves it. Especially important if it's going to be your everyday ride. With its load based (via map) timing graph you can get very good manners. 
 
Look forward to the build thread. 

You can forget about over .500" lift on standard rocker gear.  It's just not going to happen. Well not with any reliability. If you plan on taking it to the strip and giving it a hard time then just go straight to solid flat tappet. The 'run in risks' are the same with hydraulic flat tappet as solid flat tappet and the solid will make more power all day everyday. Roller rockers can be bought cheaply second hand so I'm not sure why you'd bother trying to make the stock stuff work way past its design purpose. 
 
230@50 is a good starting point on camshaft tho. Your cylinder head will need decent flow but there are various porting and build threads on here to guide you in that direction. 
 
The aussiespeed 4 barrel unit is really the only choice for the power level your aiming for (based on the times you want to run). Forget the street avenger and go straight to a 650dp. 
 
Ignition control is important on these engines so I'd be going nothing less than a 6al2 programmable and a hvc or hvc2 coil. Both are rated for street use and put out decent spark. 
 
A decent exhaust to get the bad stuff out and you should be well on your way. You will need to look at keeping weight down as much as you can but your goal should be achievable. 

You can forget about over .500" lift on standard rocker gear.  It's just not going to happen. Well not with any reliability. If you plan on taking it to the strip and giving it a hard time then just go straight to solid flat tappet. The 'run in risks' are the same with hydraulic flat tappet as solid flat tappet and the solid will make more power all day everyday. Roller rockers can be bought cheaply second hand so I'm not sure why you'd bother trying to make the stock stuff work way past its design purpose. 
 
230@50 is a good starting point on camshaft tho. Your cylinder head will need decent flow but there are various porting and build threads on here to guide you in that direction. 
 
The aussiespeed 4 barrel unit is really the only choice for the power level your aiming for (based on the times you want to run). Forget the street avenger and go straight to a 650dp. 
 
Ignition control is important on these engines so I'd be going nothing less than a 6al2 programmable and a hvc or hvc2 coil. Both are rated for street use and put out decent spark. 
 
A decent exhaust to get the bad stuff out and you should be well on your way. You will need to look at keeping weight down as much as you can but your goal should be achievable. 

You can forget about over .500" lift on standard rocker gear.  It's just not going to happen. Well not with any reliability. If you plan on taking it to the strip and giving it a hard time then just go straight to solid flat tappet. The 'run in risks' are the same with hydraulic flat tappet as solid flat tappet and the solid will make more power all day everyday. Roller rockers can be bought cheaply second hand so I'm not sure why you'd bother trying to make the stock stuff work way past its design purpose. 
 
230@50 is a good starting point on camshaft tho. Your cylinder head will need decent flow but there are various porting and build threads on here to guide you in that direction. 
 
The aussiespeed 4 barrel unit is really the only choice for the power level your aiming for (based on the times you want to run). Forget the street avenger and go straight to a 650dp. 
 
Ignition control is important on these engines so I'd be going nothing less than a 6al2 programmable and a hvc or hvc2 coil. Both are rated for street use and put out decent spark. 
 
A decent exhaust to get the bad stuff out and you should be well on your way. You will need to look at keeping weight down as much as you can but your goal should be achievable. 

Yep. Clarko has tooled up to make the wheels to suit x flow.  He also has the magnets and msd sensors. Clarko's performance. 
 
Ive got the boss to suit Romac and Ross balancers, and I'm sure Clarko can make one to,suit whatever balancer you have. 

Yep. Clarko has tooled up to make the wheels to suit x flow.  He also has the magnets and msd sensors. Clarko's performance. 
 
Ive got the boss to suit Romac and Ross balancers, and I'm sure Clarko can make one to,suit whatever balancer you have. 

Yeah. Keen to finish it off and head to the dyno. I don't care if the panels aren't on it. I just want to see what it makes. Lol. 

Tonys Metal and Speed. There is some cool clevo in chev rat rod in there to distract you. Enjoy.