CROSSFLOW extractors

[slydog 7,873]

Boost does cost plenty. My combo was $7500 just parts inc everything from turbo to Haltec ecu. Then a truck load of labour from the builder. I got the hole thing done and just got the car delivered all done and tuned.

 

 

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Any form of fast cost plenty to do it right really...boost NAT ASP or electric.  

[PRO250 1,506]

I did mine for 3k first time with less shiny bits then it has now. you will never build a Na engine for that coin that makes the the 249hp and 570nm mine makes ill get that to about 300 I think once I can control timing and it will not hold the valves open at more then 12psi its a dead stock $200 engine. I will say ive spent a fair bit on its new engine but that's not in the car


you can build a turbo 400hp crossy that works with all the bolt ons for about 8k you will not have to rev it past 5000 it will last and will make 300nm on a NA engine and its torque that pushes a car, mine pulls like a freight train in a 1700+kg car with 2.77s and unlike a big solid cam na engine I can drive it anywhere and not have to care. a big 250@50 + cam 250 will be a pig unless it has 3.9 or so gears and you will not want to drive a car with that sort of gear ratio to far and if its auto it will need min a 3500convertor and that will be a heat pump the engine will be doing heaps of revs if you want to do more then 80kmh 

im not anti NA but ive been there and still have my big engine would I bother putting my $$$$ engine into a car when I can do the same thing with a stock $200 engine? No. these engines are made for boost so go buy a windmill

but if your set on NA come here with 6500 bucks you can have mine big solid cam 250 full built engine in the bag made 240 untuned hp more if you tuned it and its brand new and come with ignition system fuel system and the webers it will turn 6300rpm this engine will need a 4k convertor to work well if you want to race it but on the street it will bang the tyres in all gears and the sound of the webbers is almost as cool as a turbo "almost"

but like everyone else says what is it you want to spend and how fast you want to go?

  

 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

yesterday when i was wondering around the wreckers i started looking in old dark places in the shed and i found 2 alloy heads 1 was e1 and the other was different again probly a later type,i will grab these next week ,one of them had the efi rocker cover still on it ,he wont want much for them so i might start collecting bits for future builds,there is plenty of EF falcons there i might try and see if i can get a crankshaft as well to suit the later crossy block.

[wagoon 2,429]

To me its the type of fast you want not how fast you want to go. A big turbo is no use to me on tight tracks like hill climbs, but would be perfect straight line speed where you have time to build boost.

 

As for size of turbo that really comes down to how much lag is to much and how good the motor is. The bigger the turbo the more lag and more pressure on the motor. A smaller turbo like a 35/76 would be better for throttle response but wont make as much peak power as a 42/94. You can also change how much lag there is by changing the turbine AR value, the trick is picking the compressor that suits your operating range and power needs just like picking a camshaft for an NA engine. But most people just put on a cheap/big turbo and run with that.

[wagoon 2,429]

yesterday when i was wondering around the wreckers i started looking in old dark places in the shed and i found 2 alloy heads 1 was e1 and the other was different again probly a later type,i will grab these next week ,one of them had the efi rocker cover still on it ,he wont want much for them so i might start collecting bits for future builds,there is plenty of EF falcons there i might try and see if i can get a crankshaft as well to suit the later crossy block.

Before grabbing bit, decide on which type of crossflow you want. NA motor will be better with C1 or C2 head where as turbo will a more open chamber head. The ef crank will require machining of certain blocks and is really only needed when full on racing and spinning over 6500 all the time. And if thats the case you will be looking at the 2grand+ forged pistons and rods. So whether for turbo or NA your looking at over 10 grand just on the engine when your engine/setup requires an ef crank.

My 350Hp solid roller cam engine uses standard crank, standard rods with ARP bolts and standard hypertec type pistons.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

yeah i already have my engine still in the car a 82 alloy head 2,im just collecting bits because they are hard to find around here.

[ando76 4,354]

And Ryan's roller is built and just about to fire.  I assure you that it will scare the pants off him and many others.  He has been smart with the dollars. He has spent and listened and learned along the way. 

 

He has done a lot of hard stuff himself and when his knowledge level surpassed his skill level he was brave enough to admit it and found good reliable people to help him out.  Yes, to a certain extent I am blowing my own trumpet, BUT I am only one small part of his package. 

 

And that is an important word - package.  Work out want you want to achieve - have a solid plan - stick to it and build it to achieve your goal.   Be honest with yourself and your budget and you will end up with a solid reliable package.

 

 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

today on e bay i see 2 new types of turbo manifolds for crossys and others hand made in tassie,anyone else seen them ? 

[wagoon 2,429]

Are these the manifolds you where looking at?

1.Log manifold

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ford-turbo-manifold-turbo-kit-xd-xe-xf-xg-ea-eb-ed-ef-el-au-ba-bf-/161885588020?hash=item25b1220a34:g:u-EAAOSwniRWNytU

2.Non log manifold

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ford-turbo-manifold-turbo-kit-xd-xe-xf-xg-ea-eb-ed-ef-el-au-tickford-/161886423448?hash=item25b12ec998:g:ZxMAAOSwvt1WRbyU

 

It still comes back to how much your going to spend and how much power your chasing. Manifold 1 is basically as budget a setup as you can get, yes it will work as such but no very well at all. Manifold 2 is better than manifold 1 but still not the best. It uses quite sharp bends on #2to #5 port which will choke the flow a bit, I would also be wanting to see a car with one installed as it looks like it's quite a wide design and may limit the size and type of turbo used. The welds aren't the worst but not the best either. So over all manifold 2 is not to bad and will work up to a point, but there are better designs out there just comes down to dollars and end goal.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

yes thats them,thanks for your time to explain the manifolds,what about the mike vine crossflow intakes there seems to be quite a lot of different ones as well,some for efi and blow threw.

[Xelisty 366]

This is the ones mike vine did up on my car. Photobucket is not playing the share game

http://s277.photobucket.com/user/HSVListy/media/100_0045.jpg.html?filters%5Buser%5D=73545487&filters%5Brecent%5D=1&filters%5BpublicOnly%5D=1&sort=1&o=264

 

 

http://s277.photobucket.com/user/HSVListy/media/100_0054.jpg.html?filters%5Buser%5D=73545487&filters%5Brecent%5D=1&filters%5BpublicOnly%5D=1&sort=1&o=262

 

http://s277.photobucket.com/user/HSVListy/media/100_0039.jpg.html?filters%5Buser%5D=73545487&filters%5Brecent%5D=1&filters%5BpublicOnly%5D=1&sort=1&o=265

 

http://s277.photobucket.com/user/HSVListy/media/NewImage.jpg.html?filters[user]=73545487&filters[recent]=1&filters[publicOnly]=1&sort=1&o=272

 

 

 

 

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[XPT 673]

They look a lot like an EA-ED OHC Mpi manifold.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

xelisty what size turbo is that on the vine manifold ?thankyou for your pic's,i live not far from where mike vines is,maybe i should take a trip there and see whats on offer.

[XPT 673]

Those eBay manifolds will work. Like wagoon said maybe not the best particularly the log manifold which is just a shared pipe with a hole cut in the middle. Sharp angles and pulse interference would result in response that was less than optimal and less top end power than better designs.

In saying that the XR6T factory turbo manifolds are cast log designs but have smoother merges in the log and at the turbo flange. The factory ford design splitting the engine in half with the cylinders 1-2-3 feeding the front half of the merge and 4-5-6 the back half. With the firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4 there is reduced pulse interference with this log design than the 6:1 log essentially having the gasses collide before being squeezed out of the flange into the turbine housing at a right angle. Factory XR6T log manifolds support 400+ rwkw with great response running a Garrett GT3582r. So any design which is similar to that is not too bad a thing. The best log design would be the split design with a split pulse turbine housing keeping 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 completely separate, which the mike vine unit looks to be.

 

For the absolute ultimate in power and response 6boost manifolds would be best they run an equal length 6-1 with a merge collector and long radiuses but at $1200+ they aren't cheap. The Mike Vine looks much better than the eBay log, probably not as good as the eBay long runner unit, in the real world there's probably not much between the two.The good thing is the 250 crossflow is a decent sized long stroke engine to begin with and it's lowdown torque will mask a lot of innefficiencies in a turbo setup, unlike much smaller peakier engines which need all the help they can get off boost.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

Thankyou xpt,if you go on vines website,there is many pic's of manifolds and intakes for the crossy and even a twin turbo efi manifold which quite a few xf's got back in the day,and some good viewing at older ait set up's,im going to look at that 6 boost manifold your talking about.ok i only found a manifold for the ba bf and fg not crossflow ? or will they make one upon order ?

[XPT 673]

They can make it to order, they've made quite a few already.

[Xelisty 366]

xelisty what size turbo is that on the vine manifold ?thankyou for your pic's,i live not far from where mike vines is,maybe i should take a trip there and see whats on offer.

 

It's a new garret GT3788R

Very good turbo combo with very little lag. It will produce positive boost from 1100rpm and spoils very quick.

Mike did a great job on mine

 

 

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

is your motor efi or carby ?

[Xelisty 366]

is your motor efi or carby ?

 

Haltech efi. Tuned to 98. Has Rpm electronic boost ramping

 

Bit about the car below. I have a full build sheets with just about every nut and bolt that went into the build

 

http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/2978-hi-from-darwin-xe-owner/

 

 

 

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

yes i have had a quick look at this before,nice ! because mine is carby could i use the 6boost or vine manifold with a set up like yours with the intercooler ect,then a blow thru on to 4 barrel manifold and carby ? or is efi the only way to go with turbo's,i have read something about later alloy heads having the bosses for efi in them even thou they were carby model's,mine is a webber std.

[XPT 673]

Depends on which model head you have. The earlier unmarked carby specific heads had no injector cutouts on the inlet ports whereas the later xf (c1 c1a etc) carb heads had the same injector cutouts as the xe-xf injected heads (e1/e2). If you have a factory efi manifold notching the inlet ports to suit the injector ports won't be difficult. You can't beat efi for any engine and for forced induction in particular. There are so many good quality affordable options , it will perform much better and more consistently than a blow through carby setup.

[Xelisty 366]

Not to mention efi easier to start. Sometimes on a cold morning back in albury in the xe turbo blow through I had in the early 90s I could be there 5 minutes trying to get fuel up and yanking in and out with the choke getting fuel up verse flodding. It was a twin cd strongberg mike vine stage two. After a few mornings I got some aerostart and fixed that issue , much easier.

Efi all day pricing cash is available fir tuning etc

 

 

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[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

ok can my carby 82 engine be converted to killer efi or should i just get a series 2 ,86 xf type  engine or whole car to start this project ?

[wagoon 2,429]

I think efi again comes down to the money you want to spend (see the trend here, money is the key to this type of setup) A carby blow through setup will work fine if you don't cut corners and you know how to keep an eye on them, if you set up an electric fuel pump like I am in my roller cam setup it will be fine. I will prime the fuel system by a switch if the car has been sitting for at least a few days then turn the switch off and the car will operate on a ignition cutoff where by if the engine stalls the cutoff will shut all power down to the fuel pump. This will eliminate the dry starting issues of a carby engine that has been sitting.

Yes EFI will give better drive-ability on the street and give a few extra percent in overall power but if you car is currently carby you will need to change fuel tank and possibly fuel lines, fuel pump, wiring, install an ecu and add sensors sensors. Really there is only about a 5-10% difference between carby and efi turbo setups, but if you are chasing that last few percent then efi is the only way to go. But efi will add quite a lot more money to the cost as not only will you need to buy a wiring harness, ecu etc buy you will also need to buy a fuel rail and injectors to support the power level you are chasing

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

OK all this info is really good,so it seems to build the worlds most powerfull crossflow,a big turbo efi set up or 4/71 blower drive system,im really only interested in a drag racing engine as this type of motor is not a daily ,what is the most hp anyone has achieved from a wild crossy ? 500-600 hp ?