Cleveland Machining

[351XD_Fairmont 604]

Hey guys thought I'd start this thread to get some input on machining a cleveland as I'm about to put mine in to be machined.

Just searching for some basics to ask the machinist about and even some special tips and tricks others have found that work well with clevelands. I've got a list of things ready for him but would like a more comprehensive list and understanding aswell so anything you've found that works or doesn't would be great guys cheers.

[gerg 10,871]

Depending on what model it's from, core shift might be a problem. It was mostly on the later ones say XD onwards. In any case, get it sonic checked for bore thickness so your machinist knows how far he can punch it out to. 30 thou max on a good block, don't even bother boring a shit one. Everything else is just standard engine stuff.

[scottly 475]

I spoke to a machinist a few weeks ago he measures all the bores then Pics the biggest one or worst bores that to see what he an get away with. if you have a virgin bore block insted of jumping straight up to 10thou you can go up 5 thou if you order the piston to suit, this is a much better option it leaves more meat on the cylinder walls and will assist with keeping engine temps down, This is all after a sonic test crack test ect

 

There is also a method on how to clean the bores correctly and get the metal shavings out of the block

 

that's all I no of

[blownxd393 25]

It doesn't matter how good the sonic test is as that won't find out if a bore is porous. It still gives good information in regards to core shift as mentioned above.

Depending on condition and what block you will want a bore and torque plate hone, possibly a mains hone and cam brgs fitted which will require you to drop the camshaft off. Ask for all the treads especially the deck taped out.

You will need to supply the rotation assembly to have the pistion to deck heights done.

Always helps if you remove all gallery plugs and core plugs for a decent acid bath.

 

It may take a few blocks to find a good one but a sleeve may be required more than likely. Even look into getting a new Arrow block depending on you hp expectations. It can be cheaper in the long run.

 

Is your block std bore and what type of combo are you looking at if you don't mind sharing.

 

Carl

[351XD_Fairmont 604]

The block I'm building up is completely standard out of an old ambo f-truck, I'm keeping it standard bore for this one guys, the next one I build will be all out using an alloy block.

For this one though so far on the list is:

Tanked/dipped, mains & torque plate honed, cyclinders honed, balancing, zero decked, cam bearings, and threads tapped(thanks blownxd393 forgot about that).

Thats what I've got so far, anything else I should be asking about?

[bear351c 10,272]

Buy pistons first, get the bores machined to fit them. 0.030" isn't always 0.030". After machining, clean, clean and then clean again.

Rags, Prepsol, carby cleaner, pipe cleaners, bottle brushes, and about 3 hours of your life.............

[gerg 10,871]

Ambo block = score!

 

They're pillow blocks (if it's a black block) so meatier in many places. Core shift was bad on those however.

[blownxd393 25]

Xd351, If your going to all this trouble for a std re-ringer just do it yourself or chances are the bores will be ovaled and will need a bore out anyway. Is it actually an xe cast number block ?

 

Ps, if your talking about the Titus alloy block for the next build I would do my reaserch first.there are some drama's so to speak.

 

Gerg, not trying to go off topic here but i believe the Ambos and Armagaurd vehicles received the better pick of the bunch. Most of the other passenger vehicles including the random esp,police pak and ltd etc got the leftovers after nascar got the good ones. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[gerg 10,871]

An external check for core shift is to look at the rear cam tunnel bore in relation to the raised boss around it. If it sits fairly central, good chance it's ok. If the cast boss sits offset to the bore, that's not a good sign.

[gerg 10,871]

You might be right, and that makes sense. I've read that the pillow blocks started out as an export version for NASCAR but were rejected due to the amount of core shift. Maybe as you say they were a selective thing where the ones picked for heavy duty vehicles got better quality control.

[351XD_Fairmont 604]

Hey blownxd393, I'd love to do it myself but currently I haven't even got a work bench so I'm having them machine it all for me and I'll put it all together at home(probably in the spare room ha), Bear I've got the pistons already but if need be I'll bore it out and buy some new ones, Greg I've had the block looked at and all seems ok, I don't think it even had that many km's on it, not sure on markings as its been tucked away for a couple of months but I'm pretty sure its an xe casting.

 

As for the alloy block its the one at Pavtek, their currently selling the cast block but are supposed to be distributing the alloy one when it comes out, I'm going to wait for atleast the second or third batch of alloys to order one so any problems they encounter would of been found and remedied.

[blownxd393 25]

Ok cool.

 

That would be the Arrow® you talking about. First I've herd of there being an alloy version but personally I'd be running with cast iron one as it would of had more R&D time.

Each to their own I spose.

 

Good luck with the build anyway 351xd.

[bear351c 10,272]

Cool.  

 

Just that there is a tolerance on everything. A 30 thou bore (+/- 2 or 3), a piston is machined (+/- ) EG: smallest piston in largest bore = sloppy.

 

Maybe I'm just OCD. 

[gerg 10,871]

Hey anyone had a set of heads done up recently? Just wondering if what I was quoted is in the ballpark of reasonable.

 

Basic head service $475

(Incl. 3-angle seat, face skim, hot tank, valve grind, etc)

Machine for press-on seals $130

Seals x 16 $60

 

Needs press-on seals as he reckons the umbrella type ones are shit and crack in no time from unleaded fuel.

 

So that's a $665 baseline

 

Then if it needs guides and valves, then it's more on top of that.

 

Worst case scenario, would be looking at probably $1100 if all guides and valves needed replacing, but he seemed to think that they probably wouldn't.

 

Reckon that sounds right?

[Thom 6,651]

I just had a set of 4v's done for $500

Hot tank

Deck

8 exhaust valves

Valve grind on all intake valves

3 angle seat cut intake and exhaust (heads already have hardened exhaust seats)

New valve stem seals (never had an issue with the mushroom seals personally and this is a budget build)

Re assemble

[gerg 10,871]

Ok cheers for that Thom... Might keep looking around. These are Sydney prices and if the difference is that much i might freight them interstate to your guy or whoever.

 

This too is a budget build and although there's nothing wrong with the performance of the current heads, the oil consumption and smoke is shitting me. I'll happily pay an extra $200 if that stops the problem.

[ando76 4,354]

Those umbrella seals are crap on crap.  I strongly suggest you contact Engine Engineering in Brisbane and they will do you a quote for the work you have listed.  I have a good contact there and we should be able to get you a good deal.  PM me if you are interested.

[gerg 10,871]

Sounds good Ando, just out of curiosity, what did it cost you to ship the bits off to Brissy from your neck of the woods?

[blownxd393 25]

I think your quote is quite good Gerg.

[wagoon 2,429]

Greg regarding freight if it works out cheaper I can pick up from a courier depot and drop it off at engine engineering then pickup when done and send back. Just an idea. Gives me another excuse to go in and have a chat :-)

[ando76 4,354]

Haven't got the bill for the Coffin's freight as yet.  It went cubic so I am expecting a decent hit.  A mate just sent a yuk puss poo MG engine down - complete on a pallet and it cost $90.  That's from one end of Qld. to the other or 1800 odd k's.  Not too bad. 

[gerg 10,871]

Greg regarding freight if it works out cheaper I can pick up from a courier depot and drop it off at engine engineering then pickup when done and send back. Just an idea. Gives me another excuse to go in and have a chat :-)

 

Cheers mate that's mighty fine of you to offer, will call them and get a price and if it's something i can stretch to then it's on. Might be a couple of months though.

[gerg 10,871]

Haven't got the bill for the Coffin's freight as yet.  It went cubic so I am expecting a decent hit.  A mate just sent a yuk puss poo MG engine down - complete on a pallet and it cost $90.  That's from one end of Qld. to the other or 1800 odd k's.  Not too bad. 

 

Cheers Ando that doesn't sound that bad actually. A pair of 2vs would be less than 50 kg.

[gerg 10,871]

Haven't got the bill for the Coffin's freight as yet.  It went cubic so I am expecting a decent hit.  A mate just sent a yuk puss poo MG engine down - complete on a pallet and it cost $90.  That's from one end of Qld. to the other or 1800 odd k's.  Not too bad. 

 

Cheers Ando that doesn't sound that bad actually. A pair of 2vs would be less than 50 kg.

[wagoon 2,429]

A pair of 2vs would be less than 50 kg.

Are you sure????

No worries on the time line, the offer is there if and when you what to use it