Crossflow runs from bottle of petrol but doesnt from tank

[Fingers 463]

57 minutes ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Huston... we have a problem... At this rate all the bolt ons and the radiator & Fuel pump are going to have to be scratched and new ones done.

 

I like learning and experiencing this engine but damn ive opened up a can of worms on this one fella's.

Not unusual, and not a huge problem

[omgwizards 13]

Huston... we have a problem... At this rate all the bolt ons and the radiator & Fuel pump are going to have to be scratched and new ones done.
 
I like learning and experiencing this engine but damn ive opened up a can of worms on this one fella's.

Stay positive, that looks dirty but I wouldn't throw out a working radiator because of that. I'd definitely give the whole system a flush and get new hoses though.

It sounds like you may need new fuel line and new coolant hoses, pretty normal maintenance things.

Another member on these forums got a fuel pump rebuild kit from Auto Surplus in Victoria, and they posted a pic of their cleaned and rebuilt fuel pump back in 2021. You may be heading in a similar direction if your pump isn't working perfectly.

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[Fingers 463]

Absolutely wouldn't be replacing the radiator because of this.

Tanks off and clean at worst, unless the radiator is actually fubar

[deankxf 20,288]

1 hour ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Huston... we have a problem... At this rate all the bolt ons and the radiator & Fuel pump are going to have to be scratched and new ones done.

 

I like learning and experiencing this engine but damn ive opened up a can of worms on this one fella's.

1 minute ago, Fingers said:

Not unusual, and not a huge problem

 

yeah it's not unusual.. BUT.

 

@Nato of Falcons 

from that VISUAL,

you may find the radiator is fine, just reverse flush it, and see if you can see water flowing through the tubes (alloy radiators are cheap at least)..

what you will likely find, or find out soon. is the welsh plugs are on their way out.(there's one behind the inlet manifold also ON the manifold)and one behind the flywheel. 

and. the biggest risk in my opinion, is the water pump if it's got the steel fan type (genuine ford had a cast iron impeller that would last longer than the seal at least) anyway, the fan blades can rust away.  
AND, the other risk is rusted bolts in the block from the water pump. 


all good learning stuff. not fun for new players. 
but. the XF is THE BEST CAR FOR LEARNING.. 

one of the easiest things to work on this side of a gemini.

 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,875]

8 hours ago, omgwizards said:

I wouldn't throw out a working radiator because of that.
 

 

8 hours ago, Fingers said:

 

Tanks off and clean at worst, unless the radiator is actually fubar

 

8 hours ago, deankxf said:

 

yeah it's not unusual.. BUT.

XF is THE BEST CAR FOR LEARNING..

 

At around $1,200.00 for a brand new copper/brass x-series radiator... your one is infinitely rebuildable.

 

Think like Grandad's axe -

end tanks can be un-soldered and the core cleaned out, (re-cored if needed) many times over.

Much MUCH cheaper than $1.2k.

 

 

[deankxf 20,288]

3 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

At around $1,200.00 for a brand new copper/brass x-series radiator... your one is infinitely rebuildable.

 

Think like Grandad's axe -

end tanks can be un-soldered and the core cleaned out, (re-cored if needed) many times over.

Much MUCH cheaper than $1.2k.

 

how much is it to recore one? the core itelf is on ebay for the first time i've ever seen for $135 ish link to triple core

 

used reasonable ones should still be under $100 if you can find a wrecker

 

new copper brass in 3 core (2 core must be cheaper )  at $900 in the wide ones link to new copper brass 3 CORE

 

$200 odd for a new alloy one, not sure which alloy one is the peoples choice, but plenty of people are using them these days new alloy one

[ZKFairlane 235]

I just dropped the radiator out of the ZK at my radiator shop to have it checked out.  He's old school and one of the last guys in the region that can still do brazing work.

 

Initial look revealed that the core may need some work.

 

I'll report back with what he did and the cost next Wednesday.

[ZKFairlane 235]

Just picked the radiator up from the shop.

 

He had a number of other higher priority stuff to do , so mine took a little longer to do.

 

Turns out that the radiator is the original unit, Denso style.  It was in pretty good condition and all he needed to do was clean it our (in a pickle bath) and sweat (solder) a few of the cores; one at the top outlet (a known problem with these radiators caused by thermo shock when the thermostat opes and closes) and the bottom outlet, and give it a new coat of paint.

 

Cost was $250 (normally $350, but as I've have a few radiators done with him and he enjoyed chatting about old fords, he gave me a discount!) .   He mentioned that a replacement radiator is going for around $800.  I didn't ask for the cost of a re-core, but would expect it to be between $250 to $800...

 

He recommended;

- put an 82 degree thermostat in it (as I will be running air con),

- use a 13lb cap, and

- use coolant at 20% concentration.

 

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Thats great mate, sounds like you got a good deal on your radiator.

 

Ive not had a chance to put a spanner to the ford yet what a couple weeks ive had hey.

 

Should hopefully have some news soon though.

 

[Nath 1,975]

I had some good luck with a cheap eBay special radiator, daily drove with it for a couple of years and it's still fine now even after sitting for a few more.

 

For the fuel issue - mine always had a problem pulling fuel from  a dry line, I guess it can't suck air through. The times I've had to start it after sitting for ages I've always had to pour some fuel into the soft line between the rail and pump to prime it first.

[ZKFairlane 235]

I'll have to remember that fuel line trick when I go to restart the motor (need to remove the 4ltr, paint the engine bay and put the EFI back together and back into the bay first...)

[Nath 1,975]

25 minutes ago, ZKFairlane said:

I'll have to remember that fuel line trick when I go to restart the motor (need to remove the 4ltr, paint the engine bay and put the EFI back together and back into the bay first...)

Ah didn't realise yours was EFI, not sure if the pump is different in that case or if you can even do that

At any rate if you do that and it works then you can at least know the fuel pump is alright and the problem is further back.

 

Edit: Looks like the EFI ones are completely different so that probably doesn't apply.

Sent from my moto g(50) 5G using Tapatalk
 

[Mr Polson 10,214]

He recommended;
- put an 82 degree thermostat in it (as I will be running air con),
- use a 13lb cap, and
- use coolant at 20% concentration.
 

Interesting recommendations.
Ford didn't have different thermostats for AC vs non AC, both just used 89° thermostats.
My experience with 82° ones - which most aftermarket ones listed for xflows are - is it makes them run at ¼ or less, which seems quite cold.

13psi cap is less than factory as well. Iron heads run 13psi but alloy head were 16psi.

No point putting coolant in at 20%, it's a waste of money. 33% is the minimum for coolant to be effective. Unless he meant corrosion inhibitor, which people often use interchangeably although it's a completely different product.

Not saying his recommendations aren't worth considering, did he give any reasoning behind them?

[SPArKy_Dave 8,875]

18 hours ago, ZKFairlane said:

Just picked the radiator up from the shop.

 

He recommended;

- put an 82 degree thermostat in it (as I will be running air con),

- use a 13lb cap, and

- use coolant at 20% concentration.

 

 

7 hours ago, Mr Polson said:

Interesting recommendations.
No point putting coolant in at 20%, it's a waste of money.

 

Personally, I'd stick with the stock 89degree thermostat.

Especially important with an EFI crossflow, for correct fuel/timing map, etc.

 

Heater will also work better, and the engine will run cleaner.

 

A 13lb cap instead of 16lb, will lower the boiling point, which isn't what I'd want to do personally.

I recommend a minimum ratio of 1/3 coolant, 2/3 demineralised water.

 

Maybe old mate, was thinking of the 70's era x-series?

 

From memory, Natra made the factory radiators for Falcons, into the E-series. (Aussie Made)

Natra was bought out by Adrad yrs ago, who kept the old tooling - still used to make the current replacement units.

 

Pretty sure Denso made the AU onwards radiators? (Imported) I'm not sure if they existed in Australia, prior to the 90's?

Calsonic, made radiators in Australia for GMH, and later imported them. They may have done Ford's too, not sure.

[ZKFairlane 235]

I agree re the thermostat, I've always run the stock versions for the reasons you both mention.

 

He was very animated re the coolant ratio (he spoke about inhibitor and water soluble oil and their effects too). His take is that too high a ratio (ie above 20%) created shaling in the motor.

 

I've bought a couple of caps from Autopro and Repco recently and they give you a 13lb one by default...

 

I suspect that by using a lower temp thermo and a lower pressure cap, the stresses on the cooling system would be lower, but the impacts on system performance would need to be taken into account to see if it's worth doing.  No point running cooler if the thing ends up running too rich to compensate.

 

He identified the radiator as the original Denso by pointing out a number of things that made it one; the number and location of the vertical straps, and the marking/stampings on the header tanks.  He actually pointed out the differences between mine and a Natrad/Adrad one (vertical straps and rods and associated nuts, markings).  He wasn't impressed with the design of any of them; both the inlets and outlets fail relatively early due to what he called thermo shock from the thermostat opening.

 

He's been doing this for excess of 40 years, so I have no reason to doubt him.  But he is known locally as a bit of a sideways thinker... 

 

Anyway, just some info from an old school guy with some strong ideas and thoughts that people can take or leave.

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Looks like Ive found the issue... this is blocked up super hard.

 

Sorry its taken me so long to come back to the forum, ive been really sick.

 

So I have a question now, if I cant unstuck this fuel sender, is there are new age equivalent?

 

It did its job and ate all the rust and crap in the tank but sacrificed itself in such a noble way to protect engine.

 

 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,875]

6 hours ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Looks like Ive found the issue... this is blocked up super hard.

Sorry its taken me so long to come back to the forum, ive been really sick.

So I have a question now, if I cant unstuck this fuel sender, is there are new age equivalent?

 

Hope ur rebounding ok mate!

 

The intake tube is supposed to have a filter sock on the end of it.

They're a cylinder looking thing.

 

I saw someone is re-producing those sender units also.

Might be rare spares, global trim or similar, but can't remember offhand.

 

Will compressed air and/or a flexible rod, clean it out maybe?

[bear351c 10,270]

Good to hear you found the issue.  As Sparky Dave suggested, could you get some thinners/kero/whatever and some Gun barrel brushes or pipe cleaners in there and clean it out or is it rusted out.?

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Hey guys,

 

Soaked some kero in it for a while, then hammered flat a piece of steel wire - put that in a drill and then augered it up there for a bit and eventually got it loose enough to air compress out of there. so it worked well hey!

 

I tried looking for a universal one but couldnt find one that fits anywhere to this so fingers crossed I can get this one to work also couldnt find the filter to fit on the bottom of it hey haha

 

Im thinking Ill just put another high end filter on the line and run it bare???

[bear351c 10,270]

Cool. 

See if you can find a second hand filter sock at a wreckers, any one will doo, as long as it can be secured to the pick up tube tightly. Wire/hose clamp etc....

[Nato of Falcons 23]

45 minutes ago, bear351c said:

Cool. 

See if you can find a second hand filter sock at a wreckers, any one will doo, as long as it can be secured to the pick up tube tightly. Wire/hose clamp etc....

Ill go see if I can find one, Any model car to look at that you think would have a good one? I can go to a place near me but they would probably have gummed up ones like mine.

[SPArKy_Dave 8,875]

5 hours ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Ill go see if I can find one, Any model car to look at that you think would have a good one?

 

Pretty sure they're the same as all falcons and USA fords - mustangs etc.

There are new ones available.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/314416055288

https://www.autoware.com.au/shop/classic-mustang-falcon-ford-pickup-parts/1979-93-mustang/fuel-1979-93-mustang/1965-86-fuel-sending-unit-filter-5-16-or-3-8-diameter-line/

https://nationalmustangs.com.au/products/1965-1973-ford-mustang-3-8-fuel-sender-filter?variant=35243107549336

https://themusclecarpartsgarage.com.au/product/sender-unit-fuel-filter-3-8/

 

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Absolute Legend Dave, thats really awesome, cheap too! Im going to get one and then put it all back together! Ive got a gasket to make!