Crossflow runs from bottle of petrol but doesnt from tank

[Nato of Falcons 23]

So yeah Ive got this panel van 1984 with a crossflow 250 in it carby,  im restoring and the bloke who had it before me says he only took the line from the tank and stuck it in a bottle because of rust in the tank.

 

Well Ive gotten rid of the bottle flushed the tank and hooked up the hoses, but, it doesnt start, if I take the hose off and stick it back in the bottle it works.

 

Fuel filter is on, kicks over fine and It kicks over if I put petrol down the carby.

 

Im kind of stumped now, is it possible a wiring thing? Im kind of stumped now because its got gas, its got the connections all in and it should start sucking fuel but doesnt?

 

Please and thank you's as always

[deankxf 20,292]

1 hour ago, Nato of Falcons said:

So yeah Ive got this panel van 1984 with a crossflow 250 in it carby,  im restoring and the bloke who had it before me says he only took the line from the tank and stuck it in a bottle because of rust in the tank.

 

Well Ive gotten rid of the bottle flushed the tank and hooked up the hoses, but, it doesnt start, if I take the hose off and stick it back in the bottle it works.

 

Fuel filter is on, kicks over fine and It kicks over if I put petrol down the carby.

 

Im kind of stumped now, is it possible a wiring thing? Im kind of stumped now because its got gas, its got the connections all in and it should start sucking fuel but doesnt?

 

Please and thank you's as always

 

if it had a rusty tank, it's could have plugged up the fuel lines with rust or rusted them also (metal lines)

there's also a hose join under the passenger side footwell/sill area where 2 steel hoses join with a rubber hose . if this hose is cracked it will suck AIR rather than fuel (easier) and therefore no fuel to the carby. 

 

check the hose join first the hoses are 40yrs old nearly if original. (stuffed) had many 10yrs ago with this issue. 

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Deano coming back to help me again, much appreciated, I will check this tomorrow morning, it looked good from what I could tell when I first checked but I didnt check if there was a blockage.

 

[deankxf 20,292]

34 minutes ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Deano coming back to help me again, much appreciated,

 

you'll need to rely on @SPArKy_Dave in 12 days time, I'm taking a break for an unknown time. few other members on the ball but many have been slowly stepping back also. 
the information is here, and you'd probably read about fuel line blockage in the gregorys manual also

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Yeah Ill hopefully find some stuff in there about it, well I appreciate the help, safe travels in whatever you do mate!

[Thom 6,651]

If there is a blockage (and you've checked the rubber hose isn't cracked suckin air like Dean said) in the line or pickup you can usually clear it by blowing compressed air backwards through the fuel line to clear it, unfortunately that will dump whatever is in the lines in the tank, its probably a good idea to pull the sender out of the tank and clean it and clean the fuel line while the sender is off

[bear351c 10,270]

Blocked vent in the fuel cap.?? Try running it without the cap on. Sounds like a blocked filter, maybe one under the car where you can't see it.?

[Nato of Falcons 23]

7 hours ago, bear351c said:

Blocked vent in the fuel cap.?? Try running it without the cap on. Sounds like a blocked filter, maybe one under the car where you can't see it.?

I did take the cap off thinking it was going to be something like this maybe but the same thing.

 

Thanks for all the help team, im going to be working on it in an hour or two and will keep you all updated!

[omgwizards 13]

How did it go? I'll probably be in a similar situation soon (Crossflow with carby - works fine when using a jerry can, but soon to be reconnecting gas tank)

 

So I'm thinking, try a fuel pressure gauge at various places along the line. A working fuel pump provides 24 - 35 kPa at idle. Between the fuel tank and the fuel pump there needs to be negative pressure. If there is a leak or a blockage you'll see a change in pressure on either side.

 

[deankxf 20,292]

27 minutes ago, omgwizards said:

How did it go? I'll probably be in a similar situation soon (Crossflow with carby - works fine when using a jerry can, but soon to be reconnecting gas tank)

 

So I'm thinking, try a fuel pressure gauge at various places along the line. A working fuel pump provides 24 - 35 kPa at idle. Between the fuel tank and the fuel pump there needs to be negative pressure. If there is a leak or a blockage you'll see a change in pressure on either side.

 

if you are handy you can try some whipper snipper cord into the fuel line, if its' free it should go a fair way on the straight runs (not sure on the bends) 

the blockages i had were close to the pipe ends within 50cm from the ends at least

[Nato of Falcons 23]

12 hours ago, omgwizards said:

How did it go? I'll probably be in a similar situation soon (Crossflow with carby - works fine when using a jerry can, but soon to be reconnecting gas tank)

 

So I'm thinking, try a fuel pressure gauge at various places along the line. A working fuel pump provides 24 - 35 kPa at idle. Between the fuel tank and the fuel pump there needs to be negative pressure. If there is a leak or a blockage you'll see a change in pressure on either side.

 

Sorry ive been sick (bit by a spider and it really rocked me hahha) ill be working on it this arvo and will def keep you posted to what happens.

[deankxf 20,292]

11 minutes ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Sorry ive been sick (bit by a spider and it really rocked me hahha)

got to watch out for redbacks working on old cars, 
 

My cars have them from sitting a long time, definitely get the surface spray out if it was from the car.  and also a flea bomb type (i've had them in the air vents, in the wiper plenum, under the mudgaurds and bumpers (places you reach into to undo stuff)

tip for redbacks, the web is STRONG, if you are brushing a web with a screwdriver and the web seems strong, it's likely a redback so go to town with the spray ( 2 people i've met had been bitten by them working on cars, one needed the hospital) 

[Nato of Falcons 23]

2 minutes ago, deankxf said:

got to watch out for redbacks working on old cars, 
 

My cars have them from sitting a long time, definitely get the surface spray out if it was from the car.  and also a flea bomb type (i've had them in the air vents, in the wiper plenum, under the mudgaurds and bumpers (places you reach into to undo stuff)

tip for redbacks, the web is STRONG, if you are brushing a web with a screwdriver and the web seems strong, it's likely a redback so go to town with the spray ( 2 people i've met had been bitten by them working on cars, one needed the hospital) 

Yeah def a good tip, I threw a few bug bombs in there a few weeks ago and they must have come back, got me on the leg and I tell you what, the itchiness was insane and yeah just had a bit of a nap haha all good just got real tired no life and death. Ill be on the lookout though a bit more now.

[deankxf 20,292]

10 minutes ago, Nato of Falcons said:

Yeah def a good tip, I threw a few bug bombs in there a few weeks ago and they must have come back, got me on the leg and I tell you what, the itchiness was insane and yeah just had a bit of a nap haha all good just got real tired no life and death. Ill be on the lookout though a bit more now.

 

itchy sounds like Bullant or Wasp or white tail spider.  redback = PAIN.. and lots of it.  

[Nato of Falcons 23]

On 4/20/2023 at 8:24 PM, omgwizards said:

How did it go? I'll probably be in a similar situation soon (Crossflow with carby - works fine when using a jerry can, but soon to be reconnecting gas tank)

 

So I'm thinking, try a fuel pressure gauge at various places along the line. A working fuel pump provides 24 - 35 kPa at idle. Between the fuel tank and the fuel pump there needs to be negative pressure. If there is a leak or a blockage you'll see a change in pressure on either side.

 

So I blew a bunch of old gas out of the line and some laquery kind of brown stuff but its flowing now.

 

The problem is now it doesnt seem to be draggin up the fuel, im thinking the module in the fuel tank might be busted or perhaps a fuse/electrical part might not be working? Do these have a controller on them?

[deankxf 20,292]

1 hour ago, Nato of Falcons said:

So I blew a bunch of old gas out of the line and some laquery kind of brown stuff but its flowing now.

 

The problem is now it doesnt seem to be draggin up the fuel, im thinking the module in the fuel tank might be busted or perhaps a fuse/electrical part might not be working? Do these have a controller on them?

that laquery goop is what old fuel does when it goes rancid(or crusty crystals with the recent fuels)

the tank pick up has a plastic screen on it that can plug up with the same gunk.  there's nothing in it after that, just a pipe. 

 

i'd also check it still pulls from  the bottle so you can confirm it's not blocked from goop since initially running.  

did you have a filter in the system for the bottle setup? 

i'd pull the tank sender/pick up out and have a look again. 

 

BARN FIND ADDS VALUE ... NOT! (maybe if you like working on crusty fuel lines, brake lines, perished rubber everything.) 

there's also hose leak  potential (sucking air) from rusty metal lines and or other rubber sections to the tank.  

really need to treat it as 5 different sections now and rule out any issues in each one

[Nato of Falcons 23]

36 minutes ago, deankxf said:

that laquery goop is what old fuel does when it goes rancid(or crusty crystals with the recent fuels)

the tank pick up has a plastic screen on it that can plug up with the same gunk.  there's nothing in it after that, just a pipe. 

 

i'd also check it still pulls from  the bottle so you can confirm it's not blocked from goop since initially running.  

did you have a filter in the system for the bottle setup? 

i'd pull the tank sender/pick up out and have a look again. 

 

BARN FIND ADDS VALUE ... NOT! (maybe if you like working on crusty fuel lines, brake lines, perished rubber everything.) 

there's also hose leak  potential (sucking air) from rusty metal lines and or other rubber sections to the tank.  

really need to treat it as 5 different sections now and rule out any issues in each one

Stinks too! But im glad its not stuck now, I took both ends off the fuel line to check the air flow and it seems fine now with no blockages hey so thats a plus, but still wont pick up.

 

Ive taken the fuel filter off now just to make sure it wasnt interfering but the damn battery died (im having suck a good luck day today haha)

 

What ive done while its charging though, is take out the filter, run the pick up line straight from the fuel pump into a bottle of petrol and will try to kick it over tomorrow when its got some charge. Just to make sure its still goes good like it did before I got into the fuel tank side.

[omgwizards 13]

Stinks too! But im glad its not stuck now, I took both ends off the fuel line to check the air flow and it seems fine now with no blockages hey so thats a plus, but still wont pick up.
 
Ive taken the fuel filter off now just to make sure it wasnt interfering but the damn battery died (im having suck a good luck day today haha)
 
What ive done while its charging though, is take out the filter, run the pick up line straight from the fuel pump into a bottle of petrol and will try to kick it over tomorrow when its got some charge. Just to make sure its still goes good like it did before I got into the fuel tank side.

Are you testing flow with positive pressure? Because the line flows using suction. Could the suction be collapsing the line somewhere?

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[Nato of Falcons 23]

4 minutes ago, omgwizards said:

Are you testing flow with positive pressure? Because the line flows using suction. Could the suction be collapsing the line somewhere?

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk
 

It very well could be, I am going to test the line a bit more tomorrow because the wife can assist in a couple of tests haha. Also helps that the battery will be charged as well. I certainly will keep you posted but over all the steel lines seem fine so far, the rubber seems ok? But for sure will test pressure tomorrow.

[Fingers 463]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:11 PM, deankxf said:

 

you'll need to rely on @SPArKy_Dave in 12 days time, I'm taking a break for an unknown time. few other members on the ball but many have been slowly stepping back also. 
the information is here, and you'd probably read about fuel line blockage in the gregorys manual also

I have been keeping an eye on here more since you expressed your intention.

I will try to help out

[Thom 6,651]

 
The problem is now it doesnt seem to be draggin up the fuel, im thinking the module in the fuel tank might be busted or perhaps a fuse/electrical part might not be working? Do these have a controller on them?

Only thing electric in the tank is the fuel gauge sensor, rest of the fuel system is purely mechanical on a carby xflow (unless the car was put on LPG at one point in its life then there will be a lock off solenoid in the fuel line somewhere), there is a mesh screen on the end of the fuel sender in the tank that could have rotted off or collapsed and keeps blocking the fuel sender, your best bet would be to pull the fuel sender out and inspect it

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Ill take it out and take a good look at it, thanks for letting me know, I was super worried the wiring was busted or perhaps a component was busted. Time to get a little dirty and look at it while the battery is still charging back in the house!

[Nato of Falcons 23]

So I had to hook the bottle back up and it had to feed down toward the engine, the fuel pump cant suck up enough if I sit the bottle underneath it.

 

Im thinking its the fuel pump hey?

 

I have to fix up a coolant line because it busted itself while I was testing.

[deankxf 20,292]

26 minutes ago, Nato of Falcons said:

So I had to hook the bottle back up and it had to feed down toward the engine, the fuel pump cant suck up enough if I sit the bottle underneath it.

 

Im thinking its the fuel pump hey?

 

I have to fix up a coolant line because it busted itself while I was testing.

better the coolant issue now than cooking an engine later.

this is why i recommend changing all hoses on a "barn find" the cast alloy fittings in the manifold can go crusty is this what broke? i bypassed the manifold coolant flow on one of my cars for this reason, but also another car due to a welsh plug rusted out on the back side of one. 

sounds like the pump is weak, it could be full of crud. i'd be inclined to run the engine wherever the bottle works for a bit and see if fresh fuel cleans up that issue. 

[Nato of Falcons 23]

Huston... we have a problem... At this rate all the bolt ons and the radiator & Fuel pump are going to have to be scratched and new ones done.

 

I like learning and experiencing this engine but damn ive opened up a can of worms on this one fella's.