C1A head qtn

[Mixalis 266]

Hi guys quick questions, want to grab mates crossflow motor out of a carby XF, it's got a C1 A head. What's the cc of those chambers and also what's the cc of the chambers on an iron head?

 

Also the dizzy in it is that an EST one? Didn't look like it had the module for it tk be a TFI one. The EST ones much better than the electronic one I have now (out of an XE from memory)?

 

Cheers boys

Michael

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lenners121 1]

Heres some info on the heads:

 

old XD-XE alloy heads are 57cc,
C1 ,C1A & E2 heads are 50cc
C2 and C2A heads are 42cc

 

Couldn't find anything on the dizzy

[Mixalis 266]

Thank you very much lenners, now all I need to find is the approximate cc of iron heads. I'm currently running way too much compression cause of a mistake on my end when j ordered flat top Pistons and was thinking if I could upgrade to an alloy head eventually if I could drop the compression at the same time it'll be a win win

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wagoon 2,429]

If remember correctly people who put turbo's on a crossflow go for an xf efi head as I believe they have the biggest combustion chamber head ( I know these heads have the larger valves in them). I am probably wrong but if you search this site regarding turbo crossy's, cylinder head type will be mentioned.

As for the other sorry but I'm don't know much about the dizzy's, but I should probably learn

[ando76 4,354]

The figures quoted above are pretty damn close to what the head cc's up from the factory. 

 

Your best bet is to go to bunnings/masters and get a syringe and measure yourself.  Both these big chain stores sell big syringes with ml's marked on the side.  They are used for mixing oil in 2 stroke etc.  they are like $14 and are very robust.

 

Cc'ing your head is the only way to accurately know your cc and therefore be able to know your true static compression ration.  As an example I had an early unmarked head measure 41cc!!! yep it had coped a big shave.  All these heads are getting on a bit and you be sure they have all had a couple of thou taken off them in that time.

 

Dizzy is easy to tell.  If it has a big grey module on the side it is TFI.  If it doesn't it is EST.  Both these have a centre missing tooth piece that flys past a magnet. 

 

The xe magnetic trigger dizzy has a chopper wheel in the centre - sort of looks like a star and is easy to spot as it has a vacuum advance unit on the side.  The TFI & EST (Hall effect) dizzys have no vacuum advance.

[FORD_MAN 1,026]

Yeah my CNC ported C2 is 49cc due to the EVL valves having a dished face & smoothing the sharp point in the chamber.

[broken-wheel 659]

I run 12.6:1 comp and had no issue

95mm bore

99mm stroke

flat top

unmarked head 57cc

 

head really ended up around 59.5cc as quite a bit was taken off the face of the valves to lower the comp so in theory the comp would be down to about 12.4:1 but nevertheless it was running ok, just don't load the engine under 3800rpm and no ping

 

I'm going to take 50thou off the heads, fly cut the pistons and run E85, aiming for 15:1

[ando76 4,354]

and break blocks and tear cranks out of engines.  15:1 in a crossy is a time bomb.  seen it many times in mudflickers.  They will crack at the front right head bolt (even if it is correctly tensioned) and the crack will continue over the other side and tear that section of the block out.

 

That's if you don't tear the crank clean out of the bottom first.  Very very scary territory 15:1, but hey try it if you want  - we did - never again...

[Mixalis 266]

Ok thanks for the info fellas I appreciate it as always. These are the couple of things that i left alone when we assembled my one a few years back cause my equipment worked, so about time i get a bit more familiar with this as well. 

 

Yep sounds like the best way Ando no point in guessing so that will be on the cards. Ill be picking up this motor off my mate as i could definitely use the alloy head sometime in the future and hopefully the dizzy as well if it is the EST one. 

 

Anyway back to this, when you guys say unmarked head are you referring to the iron head or is there a series of unmarked alloy heads? 

 

Also Ando have had a bit of a read through some of your ignition related posts, is the EST one you prefer over the TFI or more that the EST is as good/almost as good as TFI?

 

Cheers for the help again hopefully can provide some more info as i figure it all out

[Mixalis 266]

Oh and broken-wheel I'm currently running big comp as well and have not had any issues recently ever since putting it on a dyno and checking A/F ratios and putting in a very very conservative base timing figure. Unfortunately i have no idea what my dizzy is graphed too as I'm running the same one when bought the car all those years ago and being high comp its very sensitive to changes in timing, for that reason I've picked conservative for now. 

 

In saying that still did 166rwhp through a BW35 that was on its way out, probably closer to 180rwhp with the single rail now and thats with a baby  214@0.05" 0.510" cam and no aftermarket ignition so pretty happy atm. Good to hear you're not having any troubles either

[broken-wheel 659]

Ok thanks for the info fellas I appreciate it as always. These are the couple of things that i left alone when we assembled my one a few years back cause my equipment worked, so about time i get a bit more familiar with this as well. 

 

Yep sounds like the best way Ando no point in guessing so that will be on the cards. Ill be picking up this motor off my mate as i could definitely use the alloy head sometime in the future and hopefully the dizzy as well if it is the EST one. 

 

Anyway back to this, when you guys say unmarked head are you referring to the iron head or is there a series of unmarked alloy heads? 

 

Also Ando have had a bit of a read through some of your ignition related posts, is the EST one you prefer over the TFI or more that the EST is as good/almost as good as TFI?

 

Cheers for the help again hopefully can provide some more info as i figure it all out

 

unmarked head is the biggest CC head out of the alloy heads, a lot of 3.3L came with it as they had flat tops, go TFI/EST dizzy, I did't and was missing at around 6.5k pretty bad and din't take it past that

 

Oh and broken-wheel I'm currently running big comp as well and have not had any issues recently ever since putting it on a dyno and checking A/F ratios and putting in a very very conservative base timing figure. Unfortunately i have no idea what my dizzy is graphed too as I'm running the same one when bought the car all those years ago and being high comp its very sensitive to changes in timing, for that reason I've picked conservative for now. 

 

In saying that still did 166rwhp through a BW35 that was on its way out, probably closer to 180rwhp with the single rail now and thats with a baby  214@0.05" 0.510" cam and no aftermarket ignition so pretty happy atm. Good to hear you're not having any troubles either

 

 

baby cam!

255/260 .63 lift 95mm bore 99 stroke, unmarked head (ported), aussie speed (ported) 4bbl 650, flat top pistons made 372hp at 6.5k where it started missing, drove it around for a while with a single rail and rolled it at QR, ball joint let go. Re-building this in a XE now drag spec, expecting to hit 380hp at the rears on E85 and 600 at the rears with the foggers on

 

hope to have it done this year but time will tell, there is a Ducati Monster competing for cash so the Monster might win

 

also i'm surprised the BW35 lasted! the XE has one in it now and it's complaining while towing the boat, got a C4 for it but got a shock when I was ordering the rebuild kit from the states, wtf is this 73cents to a dollar? $800 AUD for a 500hp C5 kit is not cheap anymore add all the extra bits to make it last with a trans brake and i'm looking at over 1k to rebuild a C4, this used to be under $500 not long ago....

 

Ando, next door (literally) to Performance Wholesale one guy had a xflow on methanol running 16:1, spinning to 7k and making over 400hp through  a Cain 4bbl mani, not sure what happened to that motor, was about 2 years back when they did some cnc copying on ports. Never seen the ports just heard the motor and had a chat with the guy, Micky i think was his name. He said the has taken it to over 7k with an old converter that flared up and was ok. The guy looked and talked like he has no mechanical sympathy whatsoever so whoever build that crossy knew what they were doing, there was an AU donk being built there that was expected to crack 380hp (dirt racing)

[ando76 4,354]

Unmarked we refer to are alloy heads with nothing between number 1 and 2 inlet port.  Iron heads are iron heads.

 

I use the EST dizzy and have never had an issue.  Never had rotor phasing issues like everyone says.  Are they better than TFI?  Hmm they are both essentially the same thing when you piss the module off the side of the TFI.  They both turn into a very good Hall effect sensor.  If you have TFI - don't ditch it to go EST and if you have EST - don't ditch it to go TFI.  Does that make sense?

 

Of course crank trigger is the ultimate but really only needed when you are really pushing the envelope. 

 

Big comp is usually used in other (not oversquare) engines to make torque.  IMHO big static compression is not required in a crossflow to make solid power and torque.  I honestly believe that 13:1 should be the ceiling with these engines and will make bucket loads of both power and torque and do it very reliably.

[ando76 4,354]

wow 16:1 and 7k - that's living.  Not for me - but hey if they get away with it so be it.  I'll ask cam about that engine as he was working at Performance at that time.  I think I know who you are referring to.  right beside PW is QSS Queensland Speedway Spares. 

 

would I do it - nope.  I'm at 255rwhp on the toughest dyno in town with just 12:1 comp and a 392c flat tappet and a head that only flows 196cfm.  I reckon with the programmable I can get to 270rwhp and its been reliable for the last 8 years.  Now I have the programmable ignition in I can get the ignition (tach output) to talk to the dyno so I will be able to get a torque reading as well. 

[broken-wheel 659]

those Ivan cams are magic hey

[ando76 4,354]

I like using them-  I know others have trouble dealing with Dean but I have dealt with Murray and Dean for a long time and found them both to be very helpful.  The 392c is a killer profile for a x-flow.  I have the roller version for my roller engine that I will get around to one day.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

Im starting to catch on with these crossflow heads i just cleaned one up i got during the week,its an e2 with aprox 50cc i measured it.

[ando76 4,354]

Yep and if you measure the inlet valve compared to the other heads you may learn something else about the E2.  It is a fun journey learning these motors.

 

I suggest heavily reading all the old threads on here and some of them in the members area that relate to x-flow builds.  You will learn a lot, very fast.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,312]

yeah for the last couple of months i have been reading so many,but it seems everyone has their favourite head to play with,i have 3 ,a e2, a e1  and the one on my 250 xe 82 model which i am still to see what it is but from what i have read its a c1 i think but when it comes out i will decide which one to spend money on.