multi groove valves, solid cam question

[slydog 7,873]

Thing about piston to valve is it changes with cam timing and cam size which is why it's critical to check it.I have a Tighe roller here that I got finish ground by Clive Cams (as I wanted a different profile and everyone knows my dislike of Dean) that is 1 tooth out to get correct lift @ TDC and correct centreline measurements.Thats ALOT.Dot to dot that cam would be so far out it would be scarey to think of what may happen.What generally happens is that valve's chase the piston down the bore and the valves tend to win the race and make contact if the timing is wrong.Not good bed fellows Dial wheel can be had for like $20 but you need a dial indicator/gauge in imperial and a home made piston stop to get you going.      

 

Zero deck is when the piston height is measured and the block is machined to match that exact height so the pistons sit flush with the block @ TDC yes.

 

Flowing the head if used as a measuring tool I agree with but chasing numbers and then using it on a engine not suited is the issue.It needs to be ported to "suit" your combo.Sean @ Stumpers did a awesome job on my manifold and really went over an beyond cos he is that OCD about how it should look flow but above all work.While we may not agree on cam choice I can't rap his work enough TBH.Marty White did my cyl head and as his head is on the fastest NAT ASP xflow powered Corty I'd say he knows how to make em work...just saying.

 

Dave Adams head...so you got it off Glenn and if so I strongly advise sending it somewhere to be ported,ask Chris how well his flowed after it was ported properly.Not shitting on Dave in any way at all cos he was and really is the original xflow king.

 

Stick with it bro...

[winton 399]

Nah I didn't buy the head glen had on gumtree , I've had this head for 10 years.

[TF_250 398]

If it's a Tighe cam it's a must you degree it in mine and kens rollers were out mine was 7deg advanced at dot to dot.

 

That guy is so useless.

[ando76 4,354]

There are many variables in cam timing and cam gear pin position is just one of them.  Cam gears is another but yes I agree Jason, most Tighe cams do not line up DOT to DOT, especially those with over .540" lift. 

 

Sometimes the cam has to be ground in a certain position to get the lift and this places the pin position out.  All this really highlights is the need to correctly dial in a cam - particularly in a performance application.

 

Dean is a complex person but he does not personally grind every cam shaft.  To blame a particular individual is a bit harsh.  I have found Murray at Tighe to be very approachable and he loves I6 Ford engines and has a wicked, motor bike carbed, 2v 250 to boot. 

 

Winton measure that coil bind to put Dave and I out of our misery.  Also what valve stem seals did you use and are they being picked up by the dampener?

[slydog 7,873]

Agree with gears Ando...I used a crank gear off 1 set and the cam gear and cam sprocket of another to get mine right??? Took hr's too but in the end it was not getting any closer to spot on.The main thing to remember about cam timing is chain stretch so if it's close to perfect on the high or advanced side run with that as chain stretch will alter it back after a while anyway. 

 

Dean well...no.I know I get good results from PW and you guys don't so yes peoples dealing are different but It's Wintons thread so no more about Dean from me.

[winton 399]

Winton measure that coil bind to put Dave and I out of our misery. Also what valve stem seals did you use and are they being picked up by the dampener?

i'll have a look over the weekend

[PRO250 1,506]

Ok so heres the list of things us members want you to do

Check coil bind 

Dial in cam 

Make sure the valve stem seals are not getting draged up by the inner spring or damper

Pictures of cam card so we know what you have cuase cam size is important on a forum, and we want video footage to proove thats not a stock cam :D

Back to tileing my barth room

[ando76 4,354]

that's a good list Dave.  Just returned from a great day at the v8's in tville and checking in on my favourite site. 

 

Best sounding race car - a v12 Mercedes in the GT class.  I have some phone vid but it does not do it justice.  Sounds like two tough x-flows joined together.  just the big guttural fuck off sound.  Got a cracka photo of Ky with Betty Kliminko today as well.  Kye now wants a Mercedes - dreaming.

 

should get back on topic but I've just smashed 3 great northern's into me as they only have coopers piss at the track - Yuck

[winton 399]

Ok

Coil bind , .089 ,next down .0805 then again was .089 w

The seals are sitting at the base so I assume they are fine.

 

Cam card

I don't have one , got the cam from... Glenn, about a year ago. Marked as 647 , this is a picture I downloaded from one of snail eater/Chris's threads , same cam

Didn't get a video of it running and the engines coming out this week but ite got more lump then the 650 I pulled out. Will start a thread in the corty area and put one up when it's back in.

 

Dial in, i'll do it when it's out .

 

Thanks all.

[ando76 4,354]

85 thou - fukn plenty. 

[ando76 4,354]

I actually don't mind that cam grind either.  I would like to see a little more lobe sep say 108-110 to spread the torque but it has plenty of duration and lift.

 

Would be a nice cam in a four barrel - good inlet application.  plenty of torque to be had if the cylinder head is decent - which it sounds like yours is.  Add a bit of compression and it could really take off. 

[Clevo120Y 815]

Thing about piston to valve is it changes with cam timing and cam size which is why it's critical to check it.I have a Tighe roller here that I got finish ground by Clive Cams (as I wanted a different profile and everyone knows my dislike of Dean) that is 1 tooth out to get correct lift @ TDC and correct centreline measurements.Thats ALOT.Dot to dot that cam would be so far out it would be scarey to think of what may happen.What generally happens is that valve's chase the piston down the bore and the valves tend to win the race and make contact if the timing is wrong.Not good bed fellows Dial wheel can be had for like $20 but you need a dial indicator/gauge in imperial and a home made piston stop to get you going.      

 

Zero deck is when the piston height is measured and the block is machined to match that exact height so the pistons sit flush with the block @ TDC yes.

 

Flowing the head if used as a measuring tool I agree with but chasing numbers and then using it on a engine not suited is the issue.It needs to be ported to "suit" your combo.Sean @ Stumpers did a awesome job on my manifold and really went over an beyond cos he is that OCD about how it should look flow but above all work.While we may not agree on cam choice I can't rap his work enough TBH.Marty White did my cyl head and as his head is on the fastest NAT ASP xflow powered Corty I'd say he knows how to make em work...just saying.

 

Dave Adams head...so you got it off Glenn and if so I strongly advise sending it somewhere to be ported,ask Chris how well his flowed after it was ported properly.Not shitting on Dave in any way at all cos he was and really is the original xflow king.

 

Stick with it bro...

Thanks mate for the great comment!! Don't worry I'm starting to come around to more lift in the cam LOL

 

Winton what the others have said cam wise is spot on, the last crow cam I just dialled in was 4 degrees off the cam card specs, I use the intake centreline method of dialling in.

[slydog 7,873]

Thanks mate for the great comment!! Don't worry I'm starting to come around to more lift in the cam LOL

 

Winton what the others have said cam wise is spot on, the last crow cam I just dialled in was 4 degrees off the cam card specs, I use the intake centreline method of dialling in.

 

Don't worry Ando is starting to lean that way aswell

 

I actually don't mind that cam grind either.  I would like to see a little more lobe sep say 108-110 to spread the torque but it has plenty of duration and lift.

 

Would be a nice cam in a four barrel - good inlet application.  plenty of torque to be had if the cylinder head is decent - which it sounds like yours is.  Add a bit of compression and it could really take off. 

 

108 would be the most you would ever put on it as a petrol engine camshaft or it will make for a rattler.That XXXX unit I tried had 110 and rattled terribly.

[Tyler06 266]

Good to see it coming along mate. I ran my engine with multi groove but you know that already haha

Be ever so gentle with that cam as it needs to be run in properly and babied around for a while forever checking the lash. I have a new one here because I love the cam but im still nervous on crow units as 2 out of 3 ive used have wiped lobes.

Be good to finally have another engine similar to mine with that cam to compare to ;-)

Good work mate and wen dialled in my cam was spot on :-)

[Clevo120Y 815]

Hey Chris, is it going yet, is it going yet, is it going yet???? LOL

[ando76 4,354]

I have a new one here because I love the cam but im still nervous on crow units as 2 out of 3 ive used have wiped lobes.

Be good to finally have another engine similar to mine with that cam to compare to ;-)

Good work mate and wen dialled in my cam was spot on :-)

Yeah funny you should say that Chris. Laurie just had a crow unit fail in a red 202. wiped number 2 inlet. No apparent reason. good cam run it, correct springs, good oil etc etc.

 

This is the second new crow unit that engine has lunched and Laurie is well over it. They are going to install one of their old race engines into the car as the cam in it has proved reliable. Customer seems happy about that too. He gets a better grind and hopefully no more wiped lobes.

[Tyler06 266]

Hey Chris, is it going yet, is it going yet, is it going yet???? LOL

 

Haha not yet. Been busy buying a prime mover and semi tipper to get my business going. I promise It will be ready for the motorplex season reopening :-)