Clevo120Y 815 Posted December 30, 2013 Your no ametuer LOL and your about right with your measurements Tony, I will be taking a tiny bit out at a time and testing inbetween until I get the flow I want, I will measure the diameter later on I'm balancing rods at the moment, what a PITA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted December 30, 2013 ok - keen to know those measurements for a little something I'm working on at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted December 31, 2013 The average diameter is 1.36in, the hole is slightly taller than it is wide so taking the material from the sides like you said is the way to go in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted December 31, 2013 ok so with the average port being 1.4 standard, the spacer is not that far off. Probably made a little smaller to allow for material to be taken out to suit the application. Shows the importance of matching parts to your application. 1 Clevo120Y reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted December 31, 2013 No hangover in here I see 1 Clevo120Y reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted December 31, 2013 No hangover mate, my mind is always on the go. Tony you are spot on, for 99% of applications the spacer is good to go as is but just wanted to share it's limit when we are playing in the topend of the horse power range. Same goes for the manifolds, the general rule is to not touch them but a certain diameter only has the ability to flow so much air, as you know we have to work out the minimum diameter that flows the max air that the head/combination demands. Happy new year to you all!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted January 1, 2014 smallest hole doing the biggest job as a wise man once said. When you find out what diameter allows 212cfm thru the manifold are you going to share and save me another 4 hours on the flow bench??? LOL. Happy New Year to all. P.S. The bargain crossflow head runs some great numbers with stock valve sizing!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 1, 2014 Well the simple answer would be a 1.36in diameter manifold port opening would flow 215cfm BUT as you and I both know when there is a change in direction of the flowpath not all of the exiting port diameter is used evenly, more air wants to be on the high speed side of the exit, so really what your asking me is what SHAPE would the manifold port exits be, again there wouldn't be one shape for all ports either because the manifold runner entry angles into the head ports are different between ports 1 to 3, in my opinion and this is just my thoughts as I haven't proven anything yet cylinder 1 would look more like a pear shape on it's side with the fat part of the pear being on the left when looking at the cylinder head port, cylinder 2 would be similar but less pronounced with the top of the pear shape being larger than cylinder 1 and the fat part slightly smaller and cylinder 3 would be closer to round but still the fast side slightly larger. Then cylinders 4 to 6 would be the same but mirror image of the first 3. This is for a single carb manifold. mathematically what you want is for the shape to have the same surface area as a 1.36in diameter circle but the shape has to allow for the flow to run evenly through that surface area to get the perfect flow figure with the highest airspeed. Will I share the shapes IF I work them out and prove them to be efficient? Maybe privately amongst a select few including yourself Tony. IF I work it out in my opinion would be a pretty good advantage to my work and I have to keep some things to myself don't I LOL. Bargin head is a winner then mate, are you going to send me some flow figures and pics? 1 slydog reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted January 1, 2014 I'll have to ask the owner is I can post figures - if cool I will post them in the other thread. Interesting theory on manifold port face shaping. I was looking at changes on the high speed side but different to those shapes - hmm. your ideas seem good in theory - be interesting to see them on the bench. 1 Clevo120Y reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 2, 2014 Yeah just my thoughts at this time, I won't experiment with Chis's manifold I will wait until I get my own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted January 10, 2014 So out of interest I flow tested the thermal barrier spacer from aussiespeed that goes between the head and the manifold, 215cfm it flows at 28in, this is great for everyday to mild engines but starts to be a restriction when you start chasing more power, I will be opening it up just slightly to flow a bit more but still keeping the airspeed up, the trick is to open it just enough to flow enough for the purpose plus a little head room, the joys of having a flow bench, I can open it up to flow 230cfm without making it too big. I will be doing this for both Chris's and Slydogs spacers. I know that Slydogs was used on another engine and would have been a restriction to his head flow figures. So now that you are done with the manifold and spacer and it flowed 245cfm it really shows the easy benefit of some port work and the ITB side draft carb design.My question is...why didn't I do it earlier? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ando76 4,354 Posted January 10, 2014 well we all have to start somewhere and there is nothing wrong with an angry four barrel x-flow as a starting point. The individual runner set up is the key to unlocking the true performance of these engines. Just look hoe hard wazzy's, Jason's and ken's went when they changed to individual runner. Balanced flow is the key but when you can get balanced flow at 245cfm you are really playing at the top end in my humble opinion. 230cfm is about 356hp theoretically so even flow at 245 is up there in the 'shit hold on' zone. Good results sean. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted January 10, 2014 Yeah shits getting real for sure...after seeing Mossys Corty idle @ like 900ish and like a baby compared to a 4 barrel and knowing the numbers it runs now It just reaffirms the switch to roller and webers over solid and 4 barrel.Now the exhaust has to compliment the whole show but the basic plan has always been sound I belive. Like you say a balanced combo with matched everything will be working in harmony not fighting itself.Would love to try that bad ass 650 lift 270 duration solid with webers as a skid engine...the torque would be though the roof cos it was a insane tractor of a thing with a 4 barrel and the webers will only help...gotta finish the roller unit first though but I can dream...LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 15, 2014 Now that Sly's manifold is done I will be starting this head on Monday, I'm looking forward to doing this one. I will start with a spare head port to get a shape and size I like then transfer it to Chris's head. I'm not going to change the chamber shape on this head as it has been layed back a little and removing more material will start dropping comp, I will do the spare port chamber the same as Chris's so to compare apples with apples. 1 matt_lamb_160 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 15, 2014 Chris can you post up your cam details for me please, I got them on my phone but the screen is too small and I can't read it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyler06 266 Posted January 16, 2014 Chris can you post up your cam details for me please, I got them on my phone but the screen is too small and I can't read it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted January 16, 2014 The duration at 0.050" is mental! 1 Tyler06 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyler06 266 Posted January 16, 2014 Haha I was gonna try another brand cam but I really like this one so gonna stick with it :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slydog 7,873 Posted January 16, 2014 He went soft...still siting here bro if you want to go real fast...lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyler06 266 Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah with the amount this engine owes me I cant justify having to go through changing it all again to suit another cam. I want it on the road so I can turn my attention onto the new forced induction motor for the ute lol Over spending money on a 6 cylinder really enjoying working on a clevo again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 17, 2014 Hey Chris, you run a 200 rod combo hey? whats the dish in the piston and what is the deck height? What comp do you think you have mate? your head has had at least 80thou shaved off it and it's a C1, I haven't measured the chamber volume yet but it will be quite small. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyler06 266 Posted January 17, 2014 I had the head cc'd and it had 45cc aparently. I have std deck height now with my ne block. I think it was 0.050 wen I checked and I should have around 11.1/1 comp? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyler06 266 Posted January 17, 2014 8cc dish and yes 200 rod combo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah that works out to be 11 to 1, if I can get an average of 205cfm with the intake manifold on it calculates to 350fwhp with that cam and peak power at 6500rpm. At the moment with the intake on your setup averages 190cfm which calculates to around 320fwhp which sounds about right for your rwhp readings I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clevo120Y 815 Posted January 17, 2014 You need a bit more cam Chris LOL 1 ando76 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
