How do I get this calliper off?

[iamaelephant 35]

Feeling very stupid as I've never been stymied by a calliper before. This is on my XF ute but I don't know what the rear end came from originally, I assume some kind of Falcon.

 

I've removed the two nuts on the back of these "bolts" but it's hard to see how these act as bolts? There's no head/flange? And I can't get them out. Struggling to understand the configuration of this thing. Sorry if this is extremely dumb but this doesn't look like any calliper I've worked on.

 

 

 

[iamaelephant 35]

Ahh nevermind I see what's happening. This is configured just as I thought, these are floating pins. They are just VERY seized on which probably goes some way to explaining my brake issues. 

[iamaelephant 35]

Is anyone able to help me identify this caliper exactly so I can order a rebuild kit?

[deankxf 20,292]

19 minutes ago, iamaelephant said:

Is anyone able to help me identify this caliper exactly so I can order a rebuild kit?

 

its the same caliper as an XE XF fairmont ghia

ZK or ZL fairlane would be the best to search for probably or FD FE LTD

 

those bolt hex's if you turn them and they don't turn the bush in the caliper mount they should come out. (grab with vice grips and twist and pull is best with heaps of spray where they go into the slide) 

asshole of things, i've cut them off in the past(when i had spares)

 

here's what they look like removed from the caliper bracket and fitted back into the slides 

[iamaelephant 35]

Thanks mate really helpful. One more question, is there a trick to pushing the piston back into this caliper?

[deankxf 20,292]

25 minutes ago, iamaelephant said:

Thanks mate really helpful. One more question, is there a trick to pushing the piston back into this caliper?

yes, it screws back
there's a tool for it, but at a pinch i've used multi grips and or the square ends of a normal plier set to slot in the notches to turn it. 

i have a feeling left and right are turned in different directions (left hand thread on one i think)
@Mr Polson may be able to confirm and link to the tool 

[iamaelephant 35]

Arg I tried screwing it back and the seal twisted up, I think it's toast. Not easy to find kits for these. 

[deankxf 20,292]

4 minutes ago, iamaelephant said:

Arg I tried screwing it back and the seal twisted up, I think it's toast. Not easy to find kits for these. 

they are the most asshole of any of the ford calipers

the handbrake levers often seize up also.

@SPArKy_Dave may know where to get the kits and the tool also for winding them out
i've always had enough spares i've swapped them(15yrs ago was the last one) 
i think i traded 6 crap ones for 2 reco ones once also. 

[iamaelephant 35]

Yeah this whole job started from a seized handbrake lever. 

[bear351c 10,270]

3 hours ago, deankxf said:

they are the most asshole of any of the ford calipers

 

I dunno, Dean,  the XC/XD rears are PITA as well. Must be close second.....

[deankxf 20,292]

3 hours ago, bear351c said:

 

I dunno, Dean,  the XC/XD rears are PITA as well. Must be close second.....

yeah now you mention it, i broke my first pointy nose pliers turning in the piston on one, then got the correct tool and broke that also (had to fix it, then screw the piston in the correct rotation )

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

They almost look like XE rear disc calipers?

From memory, the earlier ones need the axles removed, to replace the disc itself?

 

I'd probably use some heat on the slides/bushes, before attempting to drive out the slide pins.

Those spring clips need to be removed also.

 

I'd probably pull them apart and fit new seals, as a minimum.

 

Protex or IBS, are likely the only ones making new rubber kits for these calipers now.

 

DB3099 - Left Piston (dual keyway piston and thread mech)

DB3100 - Right Piston (dual keyway piston and thread mech)

DB2694 - (dual keyway piston, no thread mech)

DB2925 - (later single keyway piston)

 

K1199S - Caliper Repair Kit

 

Ford-specific calper piston wind-back tools -

Dual Keyway - https://www.tetools.com/disc-brake-tool-ford~13875

Single Keyway - https://www.tetools.com/disc-brake-tool-ford~13876

 

ebay universal kit - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/303466852133 (cheap price)

 

[iamaelephant 35]

Really helpful thanks Sparky Dave!

[iamaelephant 35]

These callipers are really doing my head in - this must be the worst-designed part I have worked with.

Any advice for getting this seal done? If I try attaching it to the piston first I thought I would be able to push it down into its internal groove, but I am struggling to do so. I don't see any way I could insert it into the internal groove then fit the bottom of the piston through the seal. What am I missing here?

 

Also yeah I know the piston is pretty chewed up. Half of that damage was done before I started, other half is struggling with adjustable pliers getting the damn thing out. The sealing surfaces still look fine.

 

[deankxf 20,292]

14 minutes ago, iamaelephant said:

These callipers are really doing my head in - this must be the worst-designed part I have worked with.

Any advice for getting this seal done? If I try attaching it to the piston first I thought I would be able to push it down into its internal groove, but I am struggling to do so. I don't see any way I could insert it into the internal groove then fit the bottom of the piston through the seal. What am I missing here?

 

Also yeah I know the piston is pretty chewed up. Half of that damage was done before I started, other half is struggling with adjustable pliers getting the damn thing out. The sealing surfaces still look fine.

 

it should be in the gregorys manual, i don't have one available, and i haven't ever pulled one of these apart. 

@SPArKy_Dave may help. 

 

i feel your pain, i preferred drum brakes after dealing with these. 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:52 AM, iamaelephant said:

These callipers are really doing my head in -

 

My suggestion, is to start from scratch.

 

Disassemble completely,

clean up the caliper body fully, including the hand brake mechanism, use plenty of silicone grease on the thread mechanism,

new seals or re-use seals, if ok.

 

I'd try an ultrasonic cleaner, if u have access to one?

 

The piston dust seal goes in the caliper body first, then the piston is pushed into the middle

and seated at it's fully compressed position.

 

Ur likely going to need a new piston, as the damaged side surface, may catch and tear the dust seal?

[iamaelephant 35]

Hey Dave. I didn't see your post until after I had everything put back together and bled but I had done it the opposite way - piston screwed down first then the seal pushed in around the sides. After I saw your post I decided to pull it apart again and check, and yeah the dust seal had already started pulling out so it's a good thing I did. 

 

Managed to get it back together using your method (not easily, though). The damaged piston top did not damage the seal thankfully. 

 

Thanks for the advice, it's all looking good now. 

[iamaelephant 35]

Arg I'm so aggravated with this caliper. After the rebuild I re-assembled everything. I bled the brakes, no leaks nothing, but the right rear is dragging and getting hot. I don't understand why. The handbrake lever is moving freely and fully returning (and working) but the brake still drags. Any ideas? Only that one side is dragging. I never touched the other side apart from bleeding (fully flushed the brake fluid).

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

Did you fit new seals, or re-use the old ones?

Sounds like either the caliper slides are gummed up, or the piston is sticking.

 

Old piston seals can sometimes be slightly swollen.

Even the new (aftermarket non-PBR seals) are sometimes the wrong size also, making the caliper piston stick.

 

The joys of old cars. (not just Fords)

 

 

 

 

[iamaelephant 35]

Hey Dave, I fitted new seals. I also bought a second kit just in case. This weekend I'll pull it apart again and inspect everything closely. I'll also re-do the caliper slides. Is there any lubricant you recommend for the slides? I used molygrease but maybe it needs something more specialised?

 

The caliper kit is Protex brand which I think is a reputable brand. The piston went in tight but without too much trouble which is what I'd expect for a brand new seal. 

[deankxf 20,292]

2 hours ago, iamaelephant said:

. I'll also re-do the caliper slides. Is there any lubricant you recommend for the slides? I used molygrease but maybe it needs something more specialised?

i know when i did those slides i wouldn't have had anything other than wheel bearing grease or never seize (silver stuff) and from memory that's what i used (silver anti seize)

Just make sure they slide in the holders easily (they get like a slot worn in them being alloy, i remember ditching one of the retaining clips once and just letting it sit there held by the pins) anti seize the pins also, make sure they slide easily. 

if the rubber hose from the diff to the caliper is original and 40yrs old it could be the issue also, swelling under pressure and not bleeding back (i guess if you wanted to risk it, swap it left to right, but these can also be the source of much pain in the backside undoing the rusty nuts on the line)

I got charged $400 once due to "getting a mechanic" to do the job because i didn't want to.. i told them i'd have bought another diff if it was that hard and had a go at them (was a weeks wages back then). they said it was the worst day of their lives lol..but it's fixed now properly with warranty. grr i never had issues again at least

 

[cisco 111]

With the age of the car it is a good idea to fit NEW rubber brake hoses. What happens is that the inside layer of the hose starts to break away and become like non return flaps for the brake fluid.

I had the problem with my front brake calipers so it is worth replacing the hoses all round.

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

U can test if it's a dodgy hose, by loosening the hose fitting directly at the caliper.

If the seized caliper loosen's, then that's at least part of the issue.

 

I would suggest to compare the new vs old piston seal diameter, using digital vernier calipers.

The most recent I witnesses an issue, was with rear XH calipers.

 

The dust seal, doesn't matter too much.

 

We found the aftermarket brand piston seals were a smidgen larger, when compared to the originals,

and were also slightly larger than new PBR/Bosch branded seals.