E10 petrol

[thorne 1,078]

Considering the price of petrol these days, and the fact E10 in Melbourne is usually 5-8cpl cheaper than standard 91 RON unleaded, I was considering whether or not to run the panelvan on E10 these days.

 

Does anyone run E10 regularly in their OHC engines? How safe is it? Are these engines capable of running E10 without too much sacrifice on power/economy/range/etc? My uncle runs a EL Fairmont wagon (virtually the same engine in my XH) and claims he's been using E10 as his daily fuel for years with no discernible issues. Granted, I run mostly on LPG and switch to the occasional tankful of petrol to re-lubricate the engine, but I was wanting a comparison and input from those that use it regularly.

 

Cheers!

t.

[deankxf 20,299]

is ethanol corrosive.. i wouldnt want it in a steel tank if so. especially if it gets worse with age(due to running LPG most of the time)

 

take a look inside your fuel tank.. all the ones i looked at were rusted to shit at pick a part,(they punch a hole in them anyway, but i still bought one and had it repaired)

in a sedan the fuel tanks are plastic, but vans and utes have metal tanks.. 

 

here's a pic of mine, not sure on the history of it but the guy i bought it off said it sat for a year unregistered, with stale fuel from who knows when also due to fuel pump wasn't working either.(most tanks i saw looked similar at the wreckers... especially the dual fuel ones)

this tank had rusted through the swirl pot area shown, and also through the tank itself..

 

I'm considering running a fuel stabilizer if mine doesn't go through much petrol per month(on dual fuel, but may not get much use either)

 

 

 

[gerg 10,871]

My EF got 30-40 km more out of a tank running premium over E10 due (I think) to needing less throttle to do the same work.

 

On the other hand, I run E10 in my little clevo as it gets the best economy, and gets better still if I add a bit of E85. Must have something to do with better combustion efficiency on this particular engine.

 

Although I've had zero problems with it, I have a regular turnover of say a week and a half. I wouldn't keep it in the tank it for long periods as the ethanol absorbs moisture and that's what corrodes things.

 

If you're running LPG and are only flicking over to petrol for short periods is there really much cost advantage in switching from say 95?

[deankxf 20,299]

My EF got 30-40 km more out of a tank running premium over E10 due (I think) to needing less throttle to do the same work.

 

On the other hand, I run E10 in my little clevo as it gets the best economy, and gets better still if I add a bit of E85. Must have something to do with better combustion efficiency on this particular engine.

 

Although I've had zero problems with it, I have a regular turnover of say a week and a half. I wouldn't keep it in the tank it for long periods as the ethanol absorbs moisture and that's what corrodes things.

 

If you're running LPG and are only flicking over to petrol for short periods is there really much cost advantage in switching from say 95?

you'd save much more by filling up on cheap days than any fuel type i think.

i worked with a super tight bloke at work(got his daily food down to $1 a day for an "experiment") he used to stop in at the servo for $5 of fuel daily until it was cheap, then fill up.. i wonder if he saved $500 a year for that.. maybe, but i couldnt do it.

[thorne 1,078]

My EF got 30-40 km more out of a tank running premium over E10 due (I think) to needing less throttle to do the same work.

 

On the other hand, I run E10 in my little clevo as it gets the best economy, and gets better still if I add a bit of E85. Must have something to do with better combustion efficiency on this particular engine.

 

Although I've had zero problems with it, I have a regular turnover of say a week and a half. I wouldn't keep it in the tank it for long periods as the ethanol absorbs moisture and that's what corrodes things.

 

If you're running LPG and are only flicking over to petrol for short periods is there really much cost advantage in switching from say 95?

 

Fair enough. I tend to use petrol more and at a quicker rate if I'm doing long-distance or interstate runs, as LPG tends be be more costly - and more scarce - outside of SE Australia. If I was to fill with a tank of E10 and use it all in one drive (so to speak), it wouldn't remain in the tank long enough to damage it too much, I expect? Otherwise, if it's going to sit in my tank for a few weeks (like city driving while on LPG), I'd probably be better off with ethanol-free fuel, I guess....? I've never experimented with 95 RON unleaded as I usually can't afford the extra cost.

 

 

you'd save much more by filling up on cheap days than any fuel type i think.

i worked with a super tight bloke at work(got his daily food down to $1 a day for an "experiment") he used to stop in at the servo for $5 of fuel daily until it was cheap, then fill up.. i wonder if he saved $500 a year for that.. maybe, but i couldnt do it.

 

Yeah, I figured as much. I was too slack and missed the end of the Melbourne fuel cycle, where E10 was down to 97.5cpl and unleaded was 102.9cpl (oddly enough LPG has its own fuel cycle that only occasionally corresponds with petrol), and now everything's +20cpl more expensive again. Grrr.

 

As money is a little tight - why else would I run on LPG as often as I do? - I was wondering if I can start to afford petrol over LPG, if there were other drawbacks using E10 over standard 91 or 95 RON unleaded. I've had the panelvan for nearly 1.5 years, but I've never had a full run and gone through en entire tank of petrol in one go; it's always a 100km run here with a $10 fill there, usually between empty tanks of LPG. I usually tend to keep about a 1/3- to 1/2-tank of petrol in the car anyway for "emergencies", but as mentioned before it doesn't tend to get used much unless it's a long-distance run.

[deankxf 20,299]

i almost never run on petrol with a gas car.. but when i went to Tassie i fixed the carby to make sure it would be reliable on petrol for a few reasons(gas is 90cents a litre, country servos close when its dark, double the range for peace of mind)

i'd probably be more inclined to keep half a tank of petrol, run it down to near empty once in a while to add fresh fuel.

depends if the injectors are already dirty etc also.. if it ran perfect on both fuels that may change the way i used petrol too(keep it running right is easier than saving $50 fuel wise then spending $200 to fix things

[gerg 10,871]

Yeah I'm hearing you on how things are tight... I'm lucky that I only have to drive 9 km round trip to work so a V8 isn't too bad to run, nonetheless I still try and squeeze what I can out if it. I also find myself stretching out fill-ups until the cycle comes around again.

 

If you must fill up for cheap, I'd go plain 91 and not E10 for reasons stated.

 

They don't recommend using E10 in boats or lawnmowers as they can sit for long periods unused, as it does in your tank as you wait for fuel to get cheap again.

 

2-stroke also, but for different reasons (oil separation) but I digress.

 

E10 is fine if you're turning it over in say less than a month.

 

Also you don't need to run on petrol to keep the engine "lubed", especially Fords. Taxis go for a million ks and never see a drop of petrol.

[deankxf 20,299]

 

If you must fill up for cheap, I'd go plain 91 and not E10 for reasons stated.

 

 

 

Also you don't need to run on petrol to keep the engine "lubed", especially Fords. Taxis go for a million ks and never see a drop of petrol.

I'd avoid 91 for knocking reasons,(well it shouldn't knock, but the ecu will pull timing out and therefore be gutless and probably use more fuel anyway)

 

I'd have thought keeping fuel through the injectors would keep them alive longer, same for the fuel pump.. engines run so well on gas they used to recommend to run in on petrol so they wear\bed  the rings in(don't wear on gas)

[gerg 10,871]

I'd avoid 91 for knocking reasons,(well it shouldn't knock, but the ecu will pull timing out and therefore be gutless and probably use more fuel anyway)

 

I'd have thought keeping fuel through the injectors would keep them alive longer, same for the fuel pump.. engines run so well on gas they used to recommend to run in on petrol so they wear\bed  the rings in(don't wear on gas)

 

I agree on the knocking (on anything except a stock engine) but I assumed we were talking about a carby car.

 

Injectors and fuel pump yes, but 10 min a week is probably enough to keep them running fine.

 

Never heard of engines not being run in on gas, in fact Rolls-Royce used to bed theirs in on the factory dyno using natural gas. Might require a particular oil if that's the case.

[thorne 1,078]

I was always taught when running a converted car on LPG - even if the engine is tuned for it - because LPG burns hotter and drier, run the engine on unleaded from time to time to re-lubricate it. Plus, you should avoid starting a cold engine on LPG: flick the fuel selector to petrol and flick it back to LPG once you're on the way. That and always leave a little fuel in the fuel tank regardless, as converted cars won't know to stop the fuel pump when you switch to LPG, and having to replace a seized fuel pump due to an empty tank can be quite an expensive lesson.

 

Granted, I learned these tricks while learning to drive in my old man's converted XB-XE work-horse station wagons, and again when I owned my XF with a carby engine. My current Ford has an OHC engine in it now, but I still stick to these habits because, in all honesty, no one has taught me otherwise and I thought it was better for the engine to run on the fuel it was originally made more every now and then to keep it running sweeter. Yes, taxis run all day on LPG, but I also thought they had hardened valves and hoses to better tolerate it, and these days you can get dedicated LPG-only cars (the EcoLPI systems) which can only run LPG, which is why I differentiate between dedicated and converted engines when it comes to LPG.

 

I've no idea how tolerant an OHC engine is, but I learned you could run a carby engine ragged on LPG and it would still continue to go as long as you took care of it while on LPG (including switching back to petrol occasionally). It's these tricks and habits I have in mind when I consider running the panelvan on E10, but it sounds with my driving habits, it appears better to stick to plain 91 unleaded and not bother with E10 unless I plan to empty out the fuel tank quickly.

[deankxf 20,299]

you definitely need to keep fuel in the tank and use it before it goes stale.. it might be the same story with e10 but i dont see the risk of corrosion worth it compared to the minimal extra in fuel costs per 1000km even if you used 98ron fuel.(probably using 10% petrol in that time at maximum)
 

[gerg 10,871]

Sure we all only know what we know and if that's worked for you then it's all cherries. But I don't understand what they mean by a "dry" fuel, as petrol won't burn as a liquid (it turns into a gas before combustion). If they're referring to the cooling effect of the inlet charge on the valve then fair enough, but the exhaust doesn't see the same effect.

 

Perhaps what they are (unknowingly) referring to is the difference in tune required for each fuel. A dual-fuel car will always be compromised by trying to cater for the different ignition tunes for the respective fuels. To run ok on petrol, the curve would be retarded for LPG, which would have the fuel burning out the exhaust and heating the valve more.

 

In my experience, I racked up about 120k on my Corty engine with about 90k of that on straight gas. After that time, you could crack the oil cap and there was absolutely zero blow-by. I was stupid to give that car away.

[tpak addict 1,909]

When I had my AU S1 Duel fuel I used to put 98 in.... I would run on LPG 99% of the time (did start on petrol) then every 2 month run the petrol down and chuck another 20-30 bucks in.... Never had any issues.... On long trips I only filled to half tank just in case I needed it

[gerg 10,871]

I think some dual-fuel setups tell you to start on petrol because gas is prone to backfiring when cold, which can damage carbies and blow the fuck out of the air filter.

[tpak addict 1,909]

Mine was a Tickford Duel Fuel so stated on petrol then changed over. Think it only primed then when engine fire changed over so used sweet FA petrol...