What 'fancy' oil for my turbo 250?

[broken-wheel 659]

http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php

 

I'm actually surprised at the amount of people using the HPR30, i would not use 60 grade oil in any freshly machined engine not unless the machinist was high, when that oil is hot at 60w and you don't have a windage tray you're probably loosing 20HP right there and even with a windage tray 60W is way too much when hot, too much stress on the oil pump and dizzy and here is another theory I have, why bother balancing a crank when you spin it to 6-7k with 60W oil?

[ando76 4,354]

Titan is a 25-60w oil and it's not 60w when hot. If you go into your local Fuchs rep they will show you the actual weight of the oil at specific oil temperatures. It is not as simple as the oil is always 60w when warm. That's not the way the viscosity modifiers work in the oil.

It's actually really interesting data when you see it and you can overlay the various grades of oil and look at what their actual viscosity is at temp.

There is no way known I would use a straight 50w oil in any application. It's just not needed when you get everything else right.

That's why I use and specify Fuchs race 60 (that's what I call it) in all my serious or endurance Motorsport engines. It has the guts to keep the oil pressure up when oil temps rise and it keeps everything well lubricated. A lighter weight oil would be more fluid(thinner) than a heavier weight oil at temp and rpm and therefore more prone to being flung about. As we know flying oil slows things down, takes oil away from where it is supposed to be (in the sump around the pick up) and is generally not a good thing.

Having said that I'm just loyal to the Fuchs product because it has served me and my customers well over the years. A friend who owns a large performance car business in Toowoomba uses Penrite and swears by it. It has served him and his customers very well and that's why he sticks by it. We all have our favourite things and usually stick with them like glue - cause we are afraid of change because change can and often does bring failures. No one likes that.

[Crazy2287 1,886]

Can some one explain the difference between

API SL/CF (25w60)

&

API SJ/CF(20w50)

 

And I've always wondered if using straight 50 weight oil would be any good

Well, the standard of manufacture of the oil is slightly different, SL vs SJ. See here:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

and one is thicker under all conditions. (25w60)

 

Depending on your climate and engine it might be okay to run a monograde SAE 'X' and maby even preferable as there are no/minimal viscosity modifiers. But if you are in an area where temperature changes a lot. Or are using the vehicle for short trips, shopping ect then i would stick with a multigrade.

It really is best to read the owners manual, and use a viscosity rating based on your climate as per the OEM recommendations. Unless your using the vehicle for something not intended by the OEM or outside the parameters intended by the OEM.

 

The reason so many people are using and recommending HPR30 is because most of us are not driving around in a freshly rebuilt motor at 7krpm+. Most crossys don't see over 5krpm and hpr30 will give nominal oil pressure even when hot in a high km crossy. it's zinc and moly wear pack put's it close to what was intended by OEM when originally manufactured.

Last time i checked couple years back aus has no restriction on ZDDP and moly levels. Overseas there are. So any oils made overseas or exported overseas most likely use alternatives in their wear pack. I know penrite still use these older antiwear pack additives and publish openly oil technical bulletins. I wish more oil companies did. Some of them the only way to get the spec is to buy the oil and have it tested yourself.

I'd never recommend anyone go to a thicker oil then HPR30 in a stocker unless the motors clapped out and consuming oil/blowing smoke and they are looking to get as long out of the motor as they can. Because your right, it is a thick oil. Any engine that has been rebuilt to close tolerances should be running an oil suitable. Tighter tolerances = less flow, You'll have good pressure but pressure is not a measurement of flow If your oil pump is constantly bypassing oil (90psi???) then it's just going back into the sump. Flow through the bearing surfaces is important to maintain separation and for cooling. To do that you'll need to drop the oils viscosity to return oil pressure to it's nominal levels.

 

I don't want to misslead anyone by making them think that if oils have low ZDDP (zinc and phos) or Moly it's a shit oil. A lot of science goes into the production of oils and to be honest i have very little knowledge on the subject compared the depth of Oil tribology alone. But these new oil addatives were never designed for use in 30 year old engines, i see no reason to test them when i can pick a good oil i have already used and tested right off the shelf.

 

It's also good to cross reference everything with your own research. and i can recommend Bobistheoilguy as a resource.

 

I'm still pretty interested in this Fuchs stuff.

[Grimmy 312]

I'm using the Fuchs stuff

Seems to be doing the job , was thinking penrite racing 20 . But was warned full syn in no good for xflows . So I dunno . Can only try I guess

[ando76 4,354]

From my conversations with the local Fuchs guy and other sources I have found out that you can actually have too much zinc etc. why I recommend it is cause I have flogged engines for extended duration for many years using it and I know it do in its job.

 

Anyone that has seen the skid ute videos knows how I treat my engine and when the bearings come out at freshen up time they are perfect. Same with the speedway engines. The engine I did for Brenton recently came out for a top end upgrade. Pulled a cap just to check- perfect after a season of being flogged in the dirt, where air filtration is always an issue.

 

I reckon in a streeter you could get away with extended service intervals.

[ando76 4,354]

I'm using the Fuchs stuff

Seems to be doing the job , was thinking penrite racing 20 . But was warned full syn in no good for xflows . So I dunno . Can only try I guess

Had an opposition team try it (synthetic) up here. They weren't impressed and it ended up lunching the engine. I wouldn't do it in a crossy but each to their own

[gerg 10,871]

Straight 50 is like honey when cold, poor old oil pump would be crying the whole time until warm, not to mention the poor circulation and ability to splash lube.

 

Straight grade oils are made for air-cooled engines that run hotter than water-cooled. They're built loose to have the right clearances when hot. When cold, they need a thick oil to take up the slack.

 

Detroit diesels use it for similar reasons: being a two-stroke, the piston cops two firing pulses per cycle so gets hotter, so cold clearance needs to be looser in the bore.

 

Also some heavy syncro boxes specify it instead of gear oil.

 

They are often a high-detergent oil that will clean up an engine with lots of ks, which is not what you want. You need the carbon build-up around the piston to help it seal.

 

I would really recommend against it in a road car.

[Crazy2287 1,886]

Well in theory there should be no issues using a synthetic oil. I am running a full syn PAO and Ester blend (Penrite Racing 15) at the moment in my fun car and it's seen 3 trips to wakefield park spending alot of time between 3500-5700rpm thus far with no noticeable negative effects. I'll be sure to let you know how the Tribology goes when i get my first sample done.  I started useing it instead of HPR30 because my engine/application required something more than the HPR30 was going to give me.

WRT too much zinc (ZDDP) yes. Oils are a balance and there can be too much of any normal component. Too much ZDDP or moly can cause glazing and ZDDP in large concentrations under particular conditions can become corrosive.

[broken-wheel 659]

or you can put a roller cam and use 0-15 fully syn 

the lighter the oil the quicker it returns to the sump, less wear on oil pump, less parasitic loss from oil pump and crank shaft, better resistance to aeration, comes off the crank so much easier so less vibrations etc.

 

if you trailer your car to the drag strip you're stupid to use anything but 0-15 or 0-30 max fully syn as you're going to drop the oil after every outing anyway  and you'll be doing less than 2000 km a year so yeah if you got a tailer queen why not get every 10th out of it, i can guarantee you that in any hotted up crossflow the Mobil1 Racing 0-30 will make more power than any HPR oil, period. Also has over 1800 PPM ZDDP content and if you really want to get technical you can move to the Mobil1 Racing 0-40 which has lower ZDDP like 1100 PPM and you don't have to change it ever 2-3 months, you can change it every year

 

If you do want to support the local guy then the Penrite Racing 0  0-20 is the best locally made oil for racing be it 1/4 mile or circuit, personally I would never use Penrite nor ever recommend it for my own reasons but their Racing 0 oil's aren't bad but for the money they charge i'd look somewhere else.

 

If you daily the car and it's stock then cheapest Valvoline is the go, change it every 5.000 km and change the filter every 2nd oil change and spend the money you save compared to Titan or other oils on beer or coke and hookers or buy something for the finance minister