Manifold working range

[Olive Xm 34]

Still did not make power any higher in the rev range. Done by 6K.

[gregaust 319]

That would be pretty tough setup on the street. Pretty good power for the setup IMO. The smaller 2V heads, dual plane and even that cam with 393 cubes is encouraging it to make power down a bit lower.

Sure hope that air filter was removed for the Dyno. I can see at least 15 HP there.

So that intake and carb picked up 17 RWKW. Not a bad gain but the dual plane would be nicer I'd think drivability wise?particularly with a manual to get it going.

Looking at the original. graph looks as if power is just starting to nose over at the top is why the Dyno guy took it to 6k .

Use the Dyno for what it is, a tuning tool. Hard to calculate exact drive line losses but the 416 to 520 is a very conservative estimate at best.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Olive Xm 34]

Thanks for your input Gregust yeah its not bad on the street, it wipes the smile from cocky 6 litre GM owners. Air filter was removed for the run but I haver not installed the TFC yet that gain was carbie only. Going to install the TFC today.

[ando76 4,354]

Just my 2 cents worth -

 

when I look at that original dyno graph I see air-fuels that dip down to 12 and only start to rise at the very end of the graph.  At the same time that the air/fuel ratio dips the dyno graph is going in waves.  That line should be close to flat. 

 

I am not surprised to see a gain by the change of carby - based purely on that first graph. Those Holley's are a good piece of kit.

 

I would like to see the new graph to see the power curve and the AFR line.   

 

You are (conservatively) making 1.3hp per cube at the flywheel which is pretty damn good.  Low revs = low stress.  That would still be a fun engine and with a bit more time spent on fine tuning with timing and afr's,  the numbers would rise.  As has already been said - dyno's are great piece of kit for testing improvements.  The big black dyno (or brown dyno in speedway) is where the real tests happen. 

 

Tough engine non the less.

[Olive Xm 34]

Thought I would throw up a couple of pics showing the height difference between the Air gap and the TFC. As I could never find them.

 

Note in this the carbie pad is flat on the TFC where on the Air gap its on the angle

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Olive Xm 34]

Also here is the Dyno sheet its lower than the original but Im now running a 9 inch diff, in the original it was a Borg Warner same ratio. So the Holley got me back to where I was before the 9 inch, show how much more the 9 inch taxes. 

 

*Edit original is in HP it made 310 Kw 

 

 

@ando76 yeah i see what you mean its better in this one.

[ando76 4,354]

Just a little bit better.  More stable afr's.

 

The dip at 160km/h concerns me and I would be looking at the timing at that point.  I would love to see an over lay of the torque and horsepower reading for that run in particular.  The Dyno Dymanics computers are capable of doing that - provided the dyno operator saved the test - most do and the fact that you have a print out tells me they have.

 

What ignition are you running and is the timing locked?  Good numbers punching through the truck diff.  They are bullet proof - but man do they take some power to turn. 

[Olive Xm 34]

Something was up that day they had to knock 2 deg out of the base. Normally it runs 18 and 10 but it was not liking it, so it was changed to 16 and 10. Today When I was changing the manifold, the gasket had not sealed and was sucking oil in to the intake ports so I'm Hoping that was the cause of the pinging.

[ando76 4,354]

18 total , 10 at idle? Is that what you mean?  I would have thought it might like a bit more total if that is the case. 

 

Oil contamination definitely leads to pre-ignition/ detonation. 

[Olive Xm 34]

Nah 18 idle and another 10 at 3k ish total 28. Yeah that's I thought when I saw the oil on the gaskets.

[ando76 4,354]

Ok makes sense.  so you are still using a dizzy with weights I take it from that.  Hmm.  So I wonder what revs it was doing where that little dip was - or perhaps it was just the oil causing a bit of detonation.  sort of makes sense.  I never like to see a dip like that in a graph - especially at sort of mid revs as that is where most people have their total timing in.  Points to detonation but the oil contamination and the fact that they had to knock back the total also sort of points in the same direction.  Good numbers none the less. 

reckon the manifold swap will yield some more HP but not as much as adding a programmable ignition would.  Good stuff and thanks for sharing all the updates.  Helps us all learn. 

[Olive Xm 34]

[Olive Xm 34]

Not sure if anyone is following this tread still but, I'm looking to see if there would be any interest from members before I try ebay, I am thinking of selling the heads and both intakes, to help pay for Chi 225's and a roller cam.

 

Not really sure what they are worth .

The air gap and heads have been port matched to the felpro gasket and the TFC is full height and untouched.

[Thom 6,651]

You sir have earned yourself a pm

[Olive Xm 34]

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

you know what's funny i was just thinking about this thread.

i reckon it's nosing over at 6k because of the 190cc ports, they have got to be reaching choke point RPM wise.

225s will definitely wake it up, i don't even know if i'd swap the cam out tbh, unless it was a custom grind.

 

wish i had the money to buy your top end, would be perfect to throw on the side.

what's the tfc like on the street? any bogging down or is it pretty good?

and did you sort the pinging issue out?

lakesides dyno is pretty good too, and the guys know what they're talking about.

[Olive Xm 34]

On this engine the tfc is fine as by the time the cam is kicking in the manifold is working so I didn't really notice much change, arse dyno said it had more legs thou.I have just stuffed the clutch so I cannot get it on the dyno. I'm going to rebuild the toploader to bullnose spec and I dont want to buy a clutch to use for a month or so.

[Olive Xm 34]

The pinging was the cap screws that I used to hold the intake on, they ran out of thread and did not fully squash the intake port gaskets and was sucking in a bit of oil.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

gotcha gotcha

don't do a bullnose conversion, use a 26 spline muncie input shaft instead, it will never shear, you'll break the bull nose if you launch it hard. i've done it.

[Olive Xm 34]

Yeah somebody told me about that, are they a drop in job or do they have to be re worked? Is it the M22?

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

call zed at gt ford, he's done a few of them and can go into every detail you need. there's a little work required but it's not too hard.

[Olive Xm 34]

Anybody used the afd 4vs recently? Been doing a bit of research but most of the info I dig up is not later than 2009.

The quote I got for the CHI's was almost double of the AFD's for a comparable setup.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

jason uses AFD on almost every clevo he builds with alloy heads.

but he only buys bare heads, does all the assembly himself.

[Olive Xm 34]

They quoted ready to run heads. Has he had any issues with roller rockers, the info that I have found says that's where an issue can be having to use different rockers. So are they all machined up and he just sets up the springs?

[gerg 10,871]

AFDs are cast in Australia yeah? If so, the price is much more attractive now considering that their best 2Vs are a bolt-on with any manifold whereas CHIs best ones need their own manifold to work. Of course, CHI make 2V-compatible ones too but they cost just as much as their 3V gun version.

 

Reading between the lines, you can surmise that the two companies are catering for different markets.

 

CHI is well-known in the States. They make stuff to suit Windsor blocks as well, 302 and 351 and (i believe) 351M/400.

 

AFD makes Clevo bits only.

 

HP for HP, CHI seem to be more run-ready than AFD, but on the flip side, the AFDs leave a bit more headroom to do what you want.

 

For the level of horsepower we're talking here, i don't know if there's much between them. Looking at prices, a set of bare CHIs are getting up around what a complete street set of AFDs are.

 

My 2c: best deal would be to grab a bare set of AFDs and fill them with quality bits from Precision International. Then it's your choice on what springs, valves, seals, etc you want to run. Best price and your own preference of bits.