e85 blow threw turbo cleveland

[scottly 475]

hey guys,

 

i have been looking around at some of my spare parts and now have myself wondering about a e85 blow through turbo setup on clevo. 

 

does any one know if a standard comp clevo will work well with e85 and a safe amount of boost? open chamber or closed chamber heads?,  I know with e85 you can run a lot more comp safely.

 

I have not been able to find much on this clevo wise, any info would be great or even a link would be good to

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

what setup you thinking?

decent block with minimal over bore should be good to at least 15psi i would have thought, i don't think ive seen a good bore split from excessive boost. and have only twice seen a clevo split open, both times were at 7500+rpm.

built bottom end and 12psi should see you in the 350ishrwkw area well before 6000rpm.

 

cam etc can all be bought off the shelf from camtech now too.

compression, aim for 9.5:1 your working with old iron heads. plus you can always add more boost. dont know about the detonation limits with clevos and e85 and comp ratios.... have helped in an SR20 build with 11.5:1 with 1.3 bar running through it safely. but thats a completely different engine....

 

either way 9.5:1 should allow you plenty of room for error or a bad batch of fuel. as for turbos, GT2860rs/2871r, TD06 20g's if you went twins, GT4088/94 if you went a single for street manners.

[blownxd393 25]

Hey Scottly,

 

Iam in the process of building a blow through e-85 clevo atm with leftover bits.

393 ci, o-ringed NASCAR clevo block,chi 4v heads, cns 850 blow through carb. crane solid roller,bw 80mm single turbo.

 

I can't see why the comp of a std clevo will be an issue with cast oc heads.if its not a big dollar engine just slowly turn the wick up.

Just have a good fuel and ignition system and once you throw a rod atleast your turbo engine is setup for the proper boost engine.

Your std pistons/ring gaps and rod bolts would be my first consern.

 

I don't know what it is but some of the guys over here are pulling big numbers in their std ls wreaked sinks with no rod chucking like the turbo boost is much more progressive on the engine then supercharged.

 

Its taken a while to get me to the dark side but I have to see what all the fuss is about with this snail stuff!

[XPT 673]

I fabbed up a single turbo setup for my mates XB 302C, it isn't running yet as he's been playing around his other car. He bought an off the shelf Barry Grant already set up for boost. We were going to drop his open chamber 351 heads on to drop the comp into the 8's. I believe stock 302 is 9.2:1?

 

E85 would be a good choice as it would help to keep detonation at bay with it's cooling properties. As for carby mods there is an American website : http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html which gives a step by step account of modding a 750DP for boost (Petrol of course) E85 would obviously need different mods. You would need a lift pump, surge tank and a pair of E85 Walbros due to the higher volume of E85 required to feed a boosted V8. You would also need a rising rate fpr.

As for a safe boost level it depends on a lot of things, is it a 351 or 302? Are you intercooling it? Are you using some form of boost retard like a MSD 6BTM ?(which can retard ignition up to 3deg per psi). What sort of Turbo are you thinking of using?

 

I would also invest in some ARP head studs and decent head gaskets.

Other choices of turbo would be a single T04Z for a mild setup or a BW S400SX for a ball tearer.

[scottly 475]

thanks for the replys bloody perfect, would love to know what power and torque both of those cars make

 

i basically have a standard comp and cammed 302c on a engine stand in the garage and it had me wondering if it will work with e85 as the comp ratio for e85 is higher than for petrol engines.

 

i have been thinking about just a basic blow threw set up for now until i can afford a to build a 351c or similar, i want to buy exhaust plates and make my own exhaust to suit a single borg warner s400 or similar, quick fuel e85 blow through carb, fuel reg and pump to suit, standard dizzy to suit boost or locked.

 

im still learning so sorry if it sounds dumb or not clear just curious if it will work and if any one else has done similar

 

cheers scott

[blownxd393 25]

Your welcome,

 

Not dumb at all m8. We are talking clevo's.....should be more of it !

[Butcha 111]

Mate I reackon its a massive misconception people have that e85 or even methanol "needs" xxx amount of compression. I have found E85 and methanol will run perfectly fine on 9:1 as my 250 xflow on methanol in my speedway car is currently. The key thing is those fuels can "TAKE" up to more than 13:1 on e85 and more than 16:1on methanol like sprint cars do due to the cooling properties of the alcohol content.

 

It will run fine in a street car you are just not taking advantage of what the fuel can do.

 

Btw e85 works as an awesome intercooler rig up a nos solenoid with a fine nozzle on your intake pipes wire it into a temp sensor or switch on throttle position...

 

The lower your static compression the more boost you can wind in.

 

I have always dreamed about builing a 900hp twin turbo injected cleveland but have already built a 600+ hp n/a 393 for my street car.. one day hey good luck with your build.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

anyone who says you need extra compression for E85 to work is an idiot with no experience, however, doing a straight fuel swap from PULP to E85, generally will see a 2-5% drop in HP but about a 5-10% increase in torque from my experience.

 

other benefits, lower engine temps, easier cold starts (lower flash point), ability to run much higher compression (have seen 17:1 on E85 race fuel), etc etc there's lots that goes into it.

 

but, one thing i will say is, E85 requires bigger ports due to the amount of fuel required to burn the oxygen in the cyl at a stoichiometric capacity.

 

it also responds better to higher compression and generally the engine will burn better with more cyl pressure to a certain point. ie, the closer to the safe limit you are, the more efficiently the fuel burns in the cyl. as with all fuels.

 

one big thing you need to get used to with E85, it will stop making power before it detonates, this is a pre warning to the shit that is about to hit the fan, and it is not forgiving.

 

the only 2 major downsides to E85 at the moment, is shit E85 fuel monitoring standards in AUS atm (mixtures can vary greatly LEGALLY, and E85 is more susceptible to instability) and availability at the pump (getting much much better). this is in regards to E85, not E-flex (not to be confused)

 

will also add, BW turbos are great bang for buck, seen some pretty impressive results with them. and they're cheap!

[Butcha 111]

My plans were originally to use a throttlebody efi system such as yay

 

http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/ez-efir-style-precision-cast-throttle-body-and-injector-assemblyhtml/

 

A $400 megasquirt kit some afr sensors etc run in batch fire so no crank or cam signal just run off distributor?? Never investigated furthur.

 

Holley inline efi fuel pump (will also do carby with the right regulator, or efi to 60psi 700horsepower). Like yay

http://www.holley.com/12-700.asp

 

 

Aeromotive boost reference reg (it comes with two springs one for carb that will do 2 to 12psi an another to do efi 30 to 70 psi.

 

Run bigger fuel line and a return line.

 

Stage one done fuel system done then save bit more then do the turbo.

 

Blow through carb will cost about the same I think a may be a bit more finiky? I dont know.

[Butcha 111]

Oh the above would run e85 or petrol its all in the tune

[blownxd393 25]

Some interesting comments above.

 

Just interesting info:

 

I've been slowly building a 557ci bb ford for a friends street xa with 11.4 static comp with ported edelbrock heads. we wanted to run it on pump e-85. When I consulted my carb guy for a custom carby he told me my comp wasn't high enough to take full advantage.

 

We ended up with custom 1050 quick fuel in the end (pump fuel). 4150 flange unfortunately but I think a dommy will end up on there once we want to race it later :-)

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

^ he's right..... thats exactly what i was saying, you don't need higher compression but to take advantage of its fuel properties you should run higher compression.

[XPT 673]

thanks for the replys bloody perfect, would love to know what power and torque both of those cars make

 

i basically have a standard comp and cammed 302c on a engine stand in the garage and it had me wondering if it will work with e85 as the comp ratio for e85 is higher than for petrol engines.

 

i have been thinking about just a basic blow threw set up for now until i can afford a to build a 351c or similar, i want to buy exhaust plates and make my own exhaust to suit a single borg warner s400 or similar, quick fuel e85 blow through carb, fuel reg and pump to suit, standard dizzy to suit boost or locked.

 

im still learning so sorry if it sounds dumb or not clear just curious if it will work and if any one else has done similar

 

cheers scott

We're all still learning mate it doesn't sound dumb at all. I should have added that my mate's 302C will run on 98 hence the reason for dropping the CR. Stock 302 CR on E85 should be fine as stated above. If everything is stock, I'd just concentrate on keeping the thing together with good quality fasteners and upgraded valve springs. I also think some kind of ignition control is a must to keep it nice and streetable off boost.