Borgwarner LSD rebuild

[MNTL.XD 3,831]

yes i started with a 3.27 open EB diff ,then got a LSD centre,swapped the crown gear over ,new carrier and wheel bearings,and the sucker is still noisy,i didnt change the pinion bearing .now im wishing i did ,i used the same shims on the LSD centre,i didnt need a diff spreader,1st time i ever did any diff work ,i just need now to do the pinion as i imagine thats where the noise is coming from ?

Yeah, well i guess you've gone through the same process of elimination any of us would've, it seems to me if it was making the noise with the diff still at factory settings (before you touched it), then there's a good chance it's not in the setup, more chance of it being a bearing, although i would've almost put money on either axle or carrier bearings myself. I'd say replace the pinion bearing and seal, make sure you mark the relationship between the pinion and pinion nut so it can go back together exactly as it was.

 

Edit: I would also suggest, before you pull it apart to paint a section of crownwheel with the proper marking compound to see where/how the pinion is touching, replace your pinion bearing and do the test again to see if it changes.

When you have the crownwheel out rotate the pinion by hand and check for any binding, also check to see if there is any movement side to side and in and out. Then once you take it out do a visual check of the bearings themselves looking for any pitting, irregular wear, and check both the bearings and bearing cups for stress fractures etc. If there was any movement in the pinion while it was still in, check to see if it has gone once fitted with new bearings. Make sure to use red threadlocker when installing the pinion nut. You might also be able to check how much pressure is being applied to the new pinion bearings by rotating the pinion nut with a micro newton meter torque pound wrench i think they're called. Too little pressure or too much pressure can cause shorter life of diff, there maybe the specifications in the manual. That's all i can think of.

In them videos i put up it shows where you can adjust crownwheel/pinions, why they need adjusting, and give an idea on how to do it, just cross reference to the borg warner as they won't be the same. Goodluck.

[wagoon 2,429]

i run 225-60-15 allround,when i cruise the street im in top gear at 30kph,it changes so fast,but when you foot it she really bucks,when i do my crossy rebuild i will be going for 3.7 or 3.9 possibly 4.11 as it will be a drag only ,on my street driven car i might go back to 3.08 or 2.92.

If you wanted to continue to run your current tyre size you could get a used pair of tyres in 225/70/15 size (it's a small 4x4 tyre and should easily be able to get it from a wrecker, ebay has then new for around $100 per tyre), they would be close to equivalent to changing your diff gears to 2.92. If you got a pair of 245/60/15 (will be harder to find than the above 225/70 size) it would be just about the same as changing the diff ratio to 3.08. Doing this would give you an idea of which one you wanted to go without the hassle of changing diff gears and not liking them again.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

yeah thanks mate but all this i have thawt of allready,and i put a 275-60-15 on to see the difference ,about as tall as a 225-70-15 and it was only marginal,BF GOODRICH do a nice 235-70-15 which is even taller but you loose the profile look.To fix the pinion the whole lot has to come out anyway ,i have a set of 3.08's here ,let's see.

[wagoon 2,429]

275/60/15 is a 28 inch diameter tyre and is the exact same size as 235/70/15, 225/70/15 is 27.4 inch diameter tyre, 225/60/15 is 25.6 inch tyre. I use this tyre calculator all the time when I'm working stuff out http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

 

A 28 inch tyre with 3.27 diff gears works out to be somewhere between 2.77 and 2.92 diff gears(closer to 2.77) with 225/60/15 tyres.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

i could have had the gears swapped over by now (lol)

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

Here we go again,maybe i will get 3rd time lucky,im pulling the diff apart again this weekend,going to replace the pinion bearing,im seriuosly considering putting 3.08's in ,do i need a new crush sleve and anything else or should i just get the bearing replaced and wack it all back in ?

[gerg 10,871]

I've had success using a 0.020" shim on the crush sleeve to get another use out of it, but best practice is to go brand new.

 

3.08s are a good compromise if you feel that 2.92s are too tall. IMO crossies have plenty of low down torque to pull away with a tall 1st, and you'll be one gearchange less to 100 k's.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

Yeah the 3.27 is a bit short for the highway but great at acceleration and burnouts ect.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

i got the pinion gear out,was hard to undo the nut under the car,27mm or 1-16th socket.

[gerg 10,871]

That's where a rattle gun is very handy. It's the first thing you undo, having the crownwheel and axles there to stop the pinion from turning.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

i rigged up a chain and d shackle and wrapped it around the diff,it works quite well,now she's out i will consider putting the 3.08's in ,the new 351c and fmx will like the taller gears i think as the engine is only very mild,the factory clevo's in the xe had 2.77 and 2.92 so 3.08 should be ok.

[gerg 10,871]

Oh didn't realise you were running a 351, but that would be very similar gearing to a GT with 3:1 9-inch. 100 k's should give you 2600 or so, that's with a stock converter.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

yeah im still running the 250 atm but in a few months the pillowblock is going in,i might keep the 3.27's for my crossy rebuild and just go more hwy manners in the car.Hey can you tell me on the pinion is there 2 or just 1 bearing cause i just watched many u tube videos and some have 2 bearings ?

[gerg 10,871]

Uh.. They all have 2

 

One inner (like on your pic) and an outer (sits behind pinion seal).

 

You push out the outer race from the inside along with the seal (please tell me you have a new one) and then the cup. The inner cup knocks out through the gear side. There should be some notches in either cup seating area where you put a drift behind the cup and knock it out.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

ok looks like i will need a new seal i have never done a pinion before,so the diff shop should have all these bits i hope (lol)

[MNTL.XD 3,831]

One of these is pretty easy to make mate. I made mine long enough to reach the leaf springs in the XD so it can sit on them

 

to hold it still while i get the nut undone. I ended up with a 9" which is almost identical, with a small fk around with the bolt holes

 

i'm now able to use it on both. No doubt it will come in handy many more times yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

yeah nice one mate,i just watched a video on how to get the old races out and put the new seal in ,it doesnt look that hard,but i dont have the inch per pounds torque wrench to check the preload on the bearing ,should be around 25 ? i will have to check the borg warner spec;s.

[MNTL.XD 3,831]

Yeah, i don't have the right torque wrench either, i'm about to start building the 9" diff centre so need to buy one myself. 

 

.... or there's this (copy and paste.) lol.

 

Dave

12/07/07, 12:37 PM

I turned 10 inch radius circle out of 3/4" particle board with 4 holes in the middle to bolt up to the yoke. A piece of fishline wrapped around it hooked to a good fishing scale makes a very accurate inch/lb guage to set up pinion preload. Total cost was nothing.

[gerg 10,871]

Doing it all by the book is bloody time-consuming as you need to assemble/disassemble many times in certain sequences to get all the individual preloads right. For instance, you have to measure the pinion preload torque without the seal installed (to eliminate seal drag), then take the yoke back off, install the seal and then put it back on hoping that the crush tube is still ok.

 

Most folks just go by feel, if it's too easy to turn with new bearings, the preload's insufficient. If it feels way too tight to get moving initially, it needs a bit of relaxing.

 

Mind you, you have to do the carrier preload separate from the pinion, then hope that the mesh is ok. Again, going by feel is much easier.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

i will ask my mate at the machine shop if i can borrow his one ,or im off to k mart to get the scale lol

[Thom 6,650]

I like to set the pre load without the front seal then pull the crush sleeve out and machine a solid spacer the same thickness, it's a far more accurate way to do it, and is needed in performance applications (especially with a manual ) as heavy shock loading can occasionally continue to deform the crush sleeve after th diff has been in service leading to inadequate preload on the pinion bearings

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

i will be taking the old races out today and the seal,i dont have a seal puller or do you just punch the whole lot out in 1 go ? ok i got it all out,i used a EF diff as a test run ,and a pipe and hammer.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

Tomorrow im going to the diff shop to buy new pinion bearings and crush sleve and end seal and bearing blue to check da mesh pattern,and loctite.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

Old mate at the diff shop says there was nothing wrong with the pinion bearings (DOH),anyway im getting new ones and races,also he seems amused how i am going to put 240ft/lbs on the flange bolt while the car is on stands(DOH),to crush the new 030 shim ,he says just re use the crushsleve and put the shim in,he seems to think all this noise is from incorrectly gear mesh.so im just waiting until i get the call to come and pick up the new bearings and shim.

[CHESTNUTXE 7,310]

Ok i got the new races in,new pinion bearings,did the preload with the shim,got about 120ft-lbs on the flange bolt,seems all to turn nice and no play,painted the gear mesh paint to check and it seemed to be spot on with the shims that came out,tomorrow will put the axles back in and fill with oil and have new discs and pads,also put the re-co gold snowflakes on and test drive.