Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 Hi guys not sure if this is allowed here as this is not falcon related in the body form but I'm a younger bloke getting more into cars and particularly ford engines and hav been doing most of my learning from reading from internet mostly this site and you guys are a wealth of knowledge I hav a 1985 hzj landcruiser with coil over spring conversion for a better ride with a 302 cleveland engine adapted back to standard 5 speed cruiser box any I give it a boot full and blew the engine it has a horrible knock and blowing soot everywhere so it's getting a rebuild at a shop in rockhampton qld I hav been reading a lot of posts on here from bear and others about putting 351 crank and rods int the 302 with edlebrock performer I'd like to go dual plane for down low tourqe because it's a 4×4 and a mild cam my question is how much hp will this engine be and will it still be reliable out bush and ok as a daily driver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 18, 2019 A mildly built 351 will put out 300 HP all day and have the torque to push the old girl through whatever the chassis will handle. You will need a decent radiator and fan if going off road hardcore. And a separate budget for fuel. It will drink.Stock iron manifold supports pretty good HP up to mid 400s. Carby-wise, go with a Holley truck avenger with annular boosters for torque. Again if going offroad, consider perhaps a sniper EFI kit to deal with steep angles, etc.Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 Awsome 300 hp was about what I was hoping for thanks for the info on Carby and efi I had never heard of that carby before it has just a standard holly on it atm and is thirsty now Haha but it's the best sounding landcruiser in town got to love the sound of the old carby v8s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,311 Posted May 18, 2019 ARE YOU RUNNING LPG ? just remember your comp ratio will be very high if keeping the 302c heads,or use the dish clevo piston Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 Awsome 300 hp was about what I was hoping for thanks for the info on Carby and efi I had never heard of that carby before it has just a standard holly on it atm and is thirsty now Haha but it's the best sounding landcruiser in town got to love the sound of the old carby v8s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 No lpg chestnutxe yea righto I will go with the dishes clevo pistons I hav read that will need to run premium with them pistons is that correct Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,311 Posted May 18, 2019 well just better 98 anyway,buy 95 is ok ,if you use the pistons from port city in s.a they where made with this factor in mind,i think its only a mild dish but will help with comp around 10.1,if using the flattop std piston your comp will go mental to around 11.1,and factor in machining as well you will be glad you put the dish with 302 heads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHESTNUTXE 7,311 Posted May 18, 2019 or run a monster cam but that aint gunna help with low down 4wd power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 Goid info chestnut this stuff that I dont know about and will hav the talk with my builder about to make sure he is doing the right things and dont hav dramas down the road Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,288 Posted May 18, 2019 the 351 has heaps more torque low down compared to the 302. even a stock one. i'd personally look at converting to a 1UZ, if the clevo build is relatively stock the 1UZ goes probably better and won't get hot by comparison when bogging.. they use similar fuel to a clevo when thrashed though(had one in a falcon once, the lexus LS400 is 2 ton and goes ok also) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, deankdx said: the 351 has heaps more torque low down compared to the 302. even a stock one. i'd personally look at converting to a 1UZ, if the clevo build is relatively stock the 1UZ goes probably better and won't get hot by comparison when bogging.. they use similar fuel to a clevo when thrashed though(had one in a falcon once, the lexus LS400 is 2 ton and goes ok also) I love to put a 1uz in mate but I might be a bit beyond my budget do you think I will hav overheating problems with the 351 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 18, 2019 Lexass power would be nice, but EFI wiring and plumbing is a bit more advanced than this. Also the Clevo lump is already there and running, so it's a case of work with what you got. Just source a 4MA crank, use ACL pistons and put them on the 302 rods. Use a good towing or RV cam, something with low lift and a relatively narrow LSA (lobe separation angle) to bring the midrange on hard without being a screamer. This will allow use of stock valve gear if you go with slightly updated springs. Don't use the stock ones.Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 18, 2019 Give the ports a cleanup and rid them of sharp turns and edges. These stock 302 ports are horrible.Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, gerg said: Lexass power would be nice, but EFI wiring and plumbing is a bit more advanced than this. Also the Clevo lump is already there and running, so it's a case of work with what you got. Just source a 4MA crank, use ACL pistons and put them on the 302 rods. Use a good towing or RV cam, something with low lift and a relatively narrow LSA (lobe separation angle) to bring the midrange on hard without being a screamer. This will allow use of stock valve gear if you go with slightly updated springs. Don't use the stock ones. Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Yes Gerg it's all there so that's what I hav to work with do Acl make the dishes pistons chestnutxe was talking about you wouldn't happen to know the name off the cam ur talking about thanks for as ll the info mate this is all stuff i am learning about cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,288 Posted May 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Seth said: I love to put a 1uz in mate but I might be a bit beyond my budget do you think I will hav overheating problems with the 351 if it doesn't overheat with the 302 it's not likely to be any worse with the 351. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, gerg said: Give the ports a cleanup and rid them of sharp turns and edges. These stock 302 ports are horrible. Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Thanks mate will do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 18, 2019 Yes Gerg it's all there so that's what I hav to work with do Acl make the dishes pistons chestnutxe was talking about you wouldn't happen to know the name off the cam ur talking about thanks for as ll the info mate this is all stuff i am learning about cheersThere would be several manufacturers that each make a few similar spec ones, mine is actually pretty close to what you'd want anyway. It's a Crow 21602. Specs are 208/208 degrees, about 484 lift, 110 lobe separation. Stock valve train is compatible but like I said, valvesprings need uprating. Mine's in a 302 but in a 351 it will have nice midrange punch.Other Crow grinds are the 21666 (had that one before, a bit more top end) 21890 (similar but probably a bit choppy on the idle) and the 21686 (ultimate midrange punch with rough idle).Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, gerg said: There would be several manufacturers that each make a few similar spec ones, mine is actually pretty close to what you'd want anyway. It's a Crow 21602. Specs are 208/208 degrees, about 484 lift, 110 lobe separation. Stock valve train is compatible but like I said, valvesprings need uprating. Mine's in a 302 but in a 351 it will have nice midrange punch. Other Crow grinds are the 21666 (had that one before, a bit more top end) 21890 (similar but probably a bit choppy on the idle) and the 21686 (ultimate midrange punch with rough idle). Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Legend cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 18, 2019 I dont want go to my mechanic and just say make me a 351 out of my 302 so am trying to come up with a bit of a list here is what I hav come up with so far AMA crank ACL pistons dished on 302 rods 302 heads Crow cam 21602 standard valve gear upgraded valve springs Clean ports of rough edges Holly truck avenger carby annular boosters Edlebrock performer What else do I need to tell him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bear351c 10,270 Posted May 18, 2019 Hi Seth, all depends on your budget......... Double row timing chain ($150 - $300) good ignition system (ICE around a grand $$$, MSD a little dearer). Factor in cost of Full gasket set, Main bearings, cam bearings, conrod bearings, and new Standard oil pump, (do not be talked into a Hi-volume one). Not sure if the ACL pistons are still around... I chucked the part number up on another thread just last week. When you get a new cam, you must get new lifters. All adds up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 18, 2019 It's "4 MA" for the crankshaft. That just means 351 nodular iron. Also don't worry about the Edelbrock performer manifold. It's just an alloy version of the standard 4 barrel Ford one. They made them in the States because over there, 2v engines only got 2 barrel manifolds and carbys, and folks liked a little upgrade to take a 4 barrel carby. Here in Oz, they made the 2v engine with a 4 barrel from 76 onwards. The only thing you need is to get the plenum machined out to get rid of the big taper on the secondary side that acts like a restrictive funnel.Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 19, 2019 3 hours ago, gerg said: It's "4 MA" for the crankshaft. That just means 351 nodular iron. Also don't worry about the Edelbrock performer manifold. It's just an alloy version of the standard 4 barrel Ford one. They made them in the States because over there, 2v engines only got 2 barrel manifolds and carbys, and folks liked a little upgrade to take a 4 barrel carby. Here in Oz, they made the 2v engine with a 4 barrel from 76 onwards. The only thing you need is to get the plenum machined out to get rid of the big taper on the secondary side that acts like a restrictive funnel. Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Ok cheers I will check the year of my engine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerg 10,871 Posted May 19, 2019 Ok cheers I will check the year of my engine So you don't have the 4 barrel?Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth 0 Posted May 19, 2019 Just now, gerg said: So you don't have the 4 barrel? Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk I'm not sure mate I hav never had it off but when the mechanic starts to strip it we will know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites