86 XF Falcon Ute not starting

[deankxf 20,741]

1 hour ago, XF EDDIE said:

Also how good does a 460 go in an f100? I got one with a crossflow in it

how far do you plan to drive it? 

 

with fuel prices these days, it's likely to use a heap of LPG per 100km even (My 351 used 20L LPG per 100km in a falcon.. $20 per 100km in todays money) 

 

if i was building a "truck" thing these days, i'd probably look into a diesel engine. 
30yrs ago the local panel shop to us had 460 V8 F350 tow trucks, they sounded mean as they left the panel shop on full noise to race to a local accident scene.. (wonder if they used the crashed cars fuel as a bonus?)  betting they used 30L per 100km easy  ($60 these days) 

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 hour ago, deankxf said:

how far do you plan to drive it? 

 

with fuel prices these days, it's likely to use a heap of LPG per 100km even (My 351 used 20L LPG per 100km in a falcon.. $20 per 100km in todays money) 

 

if i was building a "truck" thing these days, i'd probably look into a diesel engine. 
30yrs ago the local panel shop to us had 460 V8 F350 tow trucks, they sounded mean as they left the panel shop on full noise to race to a local accident scene.. (wonder if they used the crashed cars fuel as a bonus?)  betting they used 30L per 100km easy  ($60 these days) 

Not far at all. It hasn't travelled more than a 200km trip in its whole life. It's geared for hauling and doesn't like going harder than 90. Honestly I'm more thinking it would be fun just to have something that big. The thing is atrocious on fuel anyway with the 60l tank emptying in about 150 km. It's got the old alloy head 1 with the single throat carby in it so that would contribute to it being anaemic but it's not really daily driver material anyway. Although it neads a trip to a good panel beater first as it got in an accident a while back and did a number on the drivers side and bullbar. Unfortunately no one near me even wants to touch the old girl so it's just been sitting. If you know a good panel beater in Queensland I'd be interested, preferably in the Central Queensland area but I'm willing to travel for someone who's good. 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

4 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

It's geared for hauling and doesn't like going harder than 90. Honestly I'm more thinking it would be fun

 

I think the 6cyl F-trucks had 4.56 or 5.13 gears from factory?

 

A fellow ozfalcon member, once owned a 86' F350 4x4 351W carby, which topped out around 80km/h at 3500/4,000rpm in 4th.

(see boat pic)

I'd guess it had either the 4.56, 4.63 or 5.13 diff ratio in it?

I remember 1st gear, did virtually nix.

 

Any pics of your F-truck?

 

I have a 1975 F350 dually (project), 302C 4spd

and an 1986 F250 ex-ambo converted to tray, with 302W C6 auto, 3.55 diff ratio.

 

 

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

35 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

I think the 6cyl F-trucks had 4.56 or 5.13 gears from factory?

 

A fellow ozfalcon member, once owned a 86' F350 4x4 351W carby, which topped out around 80km/h at 3500/4,000rpm in 4th.

(see boat pic)

I'd guess it had either the 4.56, 4.63 or 5.13 diff ratio in it?

I remember 1st gear, did virtually nix.

 

Any pics of your F-truck?

 

I have a 1975 F350 dually (project), 302C 4spd

and an 1986 F250 ex-ambo converted to tray, with 302W C6 auto, 3.55 diff ratio.

 

 

 

I got a before pic. Ill just upload it real quick, It's a white 81 custom, looks identical to the first picture. It's a really nice ute with it not having any rust, but after side swiping a car at 80 it's a little worse for wear. I hear ya about first though, I usually started it in second. Couldn't go faster than 10kmh in first but it was neat being able to walk with it.

[XF EDDIE 127]

Just wondering is there any saving this cam, it's only got about half an hour of run time on it and the marks on the lifters are very light, would throwing in another 3 lifters possibly save it? Also if there is no saving this cam how long can I just run it as it is. I've decided to keep a six in this rig and I'm planning on having to do a rebuild on this infernal engine in a year or two so how much damage would I do if I just keep running this thing for a year or two and just do 1000 km oil changes? 

[XF EDDIE 127]

Also I found that photo of the f100

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917722616108843009/1267362253041307759/20230420_065835.jpg?ex=66a88293&is=66a73113&hm=270d8f206b5a137262dc24f382cd23771482bb89dd9153157c42bd0436f9a17e&

 

[deankxf 20,741]

58 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

Just wondering is there any saving this cam, it's only got about half an hour of run time on it and the marks on the lifters are very light, would throwing in another 3 lifters possibly save it? Also if there is no saving this cam how long can I just run it as it is. I've decided to keep a six in this rig and I'm planning on having to do a rebuild on this infernal engine in a year or two so how much damage would I do if I just keep running this thing for a year or two and just do 1000 km oil changes? 

 

https://tighecams.com.au/

contact Tighe Cams, and ask the same questions. 

 

they do "regrinds" (mild cam grinds from stock cams) i assume non stuffed cams, but there's a chance they may be using a metal build up process these days.

see what they charge and how stuffed it can be.  

(i've only heard of them because no one is doing NEW cams for gemini's anymore, but Tighe are still regrinding them)

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

2 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Just wondering is there any saving this cam,

 

Is it the same cylinders that were affected last time?

U can only try some new lifters and see.

 

Or remove the cam, and see how bad the lobes are?

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 minute ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

Is it the same cylinders that were affected last time?

U can only try some new lifters and see.

 

Or remove the cam, and see how bad the lobes are?

Different cylinders than last time. Here's a photo of one of the lifters

http://scontent.fbne6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/451505581_2082449598816765_4387373350322083207_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p1080x2048&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9f807c&_nc_ohc=RHPrh4CS3JwQ7kNvgHRMJK4&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne6-1.fna&oh=03_Q7cD1QE1UP65L0tFljJkZ1r0VCKa3b-Y8F9

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

Bad link

 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

Were they new lifters, with the new (no-name brand) cam?

 

Could it be worth getting a stock sec/hand EFI cam or something?

And use the lifters from the same engine/cam/valve.

 

@CHESTNUTXE is in QLD, maybe he can help?

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

28 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

Were they new lifters, with the new (no-name brand) cam?

 

Could it be worth getting a stock sec/hand EFI cam or something?

And use the lifters from the same engine/cam/valve.

 

@CHESTNUTXE is in QLD, maybe he can help?

 

Yeah fresh lifters. I'm debating whether I should just run it and see if it works enough to get me to work. What do you think?

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

2 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Yeah fresh lifters. I'm debating whether I should just run it and see if it works enough to get me to work. What do you think?

 

If u have a daily driver already,

I see no sense in potentially damaging engine bearings with metal swarf from the cam/lifters?

 

It could've been crappy lifters, or cam lobes not ground correctly.

Did u check the lifters for domed ends, and cam lobe taper, before installing?

 

[deankxf 20,741]

2 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Yeah fresh lifters. I'm debating whether I should just run it and see if it works enough to get me to work. What do you think?

 

short answer.. probably not worth it if you have a better motor to swap in. 

longer answer.. as above, but mine lasted quite a while before it was having pushrods fall out/bending. 

 

when mine wiped a lobe(likely was wiped out before i bought it, and someone stuck one lifter in it only (one lobe) 

i had the pushrod fall out of the rocker arm which is what alerted me to the problem(it was always a TICK ford, tick tick , never worried about it for 20,000kms odd. 
so what did i do, well it broke on the weekend when nothing was open as usual anyway. so i pulled one lifter out of My old motor that had rattly bearings/low oil pressure (dented sump, probably blocked screen) took some lifters out of it, slapped one in the wiped lobe motor in the daily and drove it another 10,000kms before it did it again, fitted another lifter, and it lasted 5,000kms ish.. oh, this isn't going to last much more.. bought a parts car with a good motor and swapped it in over a weekend a few weeks later. 

 

 

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

7 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

If u have a daily driver already,

I see no sense in potentially damaging engine bearings with metal swarf from the cam/lifters?

 

It could've been crappy lifters, or cam lobes not ground correctly.

Did u check the lifters for domed ends, and cam lobe taper, before installing?

 

I gave them a quick look before installing them and they seem ok. Would it just be the bearings that would cop it? Cus the cam bearings already look hashed

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

14 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

I gave them a quick look

 

I'd probably pull them all, and check.

I check for domed ends, against the side of a second lifter (lifter should not sit flat).

Crossflow cam bearings almost never wear out.

 

The cam lobes should also be ground with a very slight taper to one side, so the lifters spin.

That would be much harder to gauge than lifters though, I'd imagine?

 

Unless u have zero transport options, I would personally not drive the vehicle, till it's sorted.

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 hour ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

I'd probably pull them all, and check.

I check for domed ends, against the side of a second lifter (lifter should not sit flat).

Crossflow cam bearings almost never wear out.

 

The cam lobes should also be ground with a very slight taper to one side, so the lifters spin.

That would be much harder to gauge than lifters though, I'd imagine?

 

Unless u have zero transport options, I would personally not drive the vehicle, till it's sorted.

I noticed that even the "wiped" lifters still had their dome. How much damage should I expect to see if the cam is wiped with 40 mins of run time?

[deankxf 20,741]

7 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

I noticed that even the "wiped" lifters still had their dome. How much damage should I expect to see if the cam is wiped with 40 mins of run time?

it could be just wear in? 

I've never looked at them again, so i'd have no idea what wear to expect after run in. 

change the oil, change it again at 1000km and if it's still good, it's good forever was My thoughts. 

 

in my second hand lifters, they were all 180,000kms at minimum and i doubt any had any dome left, i'd have thought at best they were flat.(never checked) but new ones have a definite small dome(still hardly noticeable in my opinion) 

 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

Just now, XF EDDIE said:

I noticed that even the "wiped" lifters still had their dome. How much damage should I expect to see if the cam is wiped with 40 mins of run time?

 

Do u have a pic of the affected cam lobes?

Or lifters from 'good' cylinders?

 

Maybe they aren't wiped out?

 

What brand lifters are they?

[XF EDDIE 127]

That's one of the good lifters. The "bad" lifter still seems to have the crown on it. Do I just put it together and see if she goes?

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

4 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Do I just put it together and see if she goes?

 

Have u got a pic of the cam lobes?

 

Do u have access to a dial gauge/micrometer, and magnet block?

If so, I'd measure the cam lift on each cylinder, and see if the 'bad' ones have less lift.

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 hour ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

Have u got a pic of the cam lobes?

 

Do u have access to a dial gauge/micrometer, and magnet block?

If so, I'd measure the cam lift on each cylinder, and see if the 'bad' ones have less lift.

 

I don't have a pic of the cam lobes as I really don't want to pull it all apart again but I might be able to get my hands on a micrometer 

[XF EDDIE 127]

Well I've finally gotten off my ass and messed around with the thing. First the lifters are sealed power HT-900, also the XF seems to love timing. I've got the jumper bridged and it runs like shit at 10° but if I just crank the dissy all the way it actually (25° or so) runs good so I'm not to sure on where to leave the timing at but even with the jumper removed I still get no pinging or anything. It still runs a bit shitty but it seems to even out at higher revs and all the valves look to be opening properly. The 3 pushrods still aren't spinning so I'm just assuming that this cams days are numbered but for now as I do need a ute I'm just going to send it and pickup another decent kms engine (150,000) for when this one shits out and gets rebuilt. Also how much does a full bearing kit cost for a crossflow, I'm still debating whether a rebuild in the future would be worth it but if it's not gonna cost more than $1500 I probably will. 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,232]

Bearing kits for crossflows, are about $2.

I think they're all the same, right through till FGX?

@deankxf, may know more?

[deankxf 20,741]

1 hour ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

Bearing kits for crossflows, are about $2.

I think they're all the same, right through till FGX?

@deankxf, may know more?

@CHESTNUTXE is rebuilding one at the moment, probably has good used ones lol. 

 

parts are dear, stick another used running engine in and enjoy it.