86 XF Falcon Ute not starting

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 hour ago, deankxf said:

yes, i agree with this 

 

as to what to do about it,  not sure., i've had them come good before so i'd be tempted to run it for a while and see how it goes. i always had spare engines back then so i wouldn't have cared much. 

Just wondering would there be any harm in winding the engine over with no lifters. I'm thinking of pulling the lifters and cranking it with no plugs to clear any shit stuck in the oil galleys before cleaning the lifters an putting it back together. Im not sure if that might mess something up or if it would be ok

[deankxf 20,743]

55 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

Just wondering would there be any harm in winding the engine over with no lifters. I'm thinking of pulling the lifters and cranking it with no plugs to clear any shit stuck in the oil galleys before cleaning the lifters an putting it back together. Im not sure if that might mess something up or if it would be ok

I'm going to assume it wouldn't be any issue for a few rotations but it would not build oil pressure as much maybe?  

I'd consider running another flush through it firstly 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

14 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Just wondering would there be any harm in winding the engine over with no lifters. I'm thinking of pulling the lifters and cranking it with no plugs to clear any shit stuck in the oil galleys before cleaning the lifters an putting it back together. Im not sure if that might mess something up or if it would be ok

 

13 hours ago, deankxf said:

I'm going to assume it wouldn't be any issue for a few rotations but it would not build oil pressure as much maybe?  

I'd consider running another flush through it firstly 

 

I filled the oil pan up with Kerosene in my blue wagon, and cranked it to flush the oil galleries.

Don't go crazy cranking it though.

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917722616108843009/1250710327625125888/IMG_20240613_170906_7.jpg?ex=666bee43&is=666a9cc3&hm=232b66304c5220c65780560a2aa96ec59f1f98088d784fca6f530957ac0dbef8&

I think it might be cam time

[deankxf 20,743]

2 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/917722616108843009/1250710327625125888/IMG_20240613_170906_7.jpg?ex=666bee43&is=666a9cc3&hm=232b66304c5220c65780560a2aa96ec59f1f98088d784fca6f530957ac0dbef8&

I think it might be cam time

 

Yeah that looks pretty hammered

 

 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

How dished out is it?

Grab a pic with a straight edge ruler on it?

 

I've had worn lifters where the cam was still ok, (and actually still ran good too, but clattery).

 

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 hour ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

How dished out is it?

Grab a pic with a straight edge ruler on it?

 

I've had worn lifters where the cam was still ok, (and actually still ran good too, but clattery).

 

 

It is proper fucked. The surface is about 1 mm concave and has deep scratches all going in one direction. It has a band of putting on the bottom so I'm wondering if the lifter was stuck when I first got it running and it just fucked it. I've decided to put a new (used) cam in it as I can get one for $50 and the cheapest engine near me is $300. Any pointers on how to actually do the swap?

[deankxf 20,743]

1 hour ago, XF EDDIE said:

It is proper fucked. The surface is about 1 mm concave and has deep scratches all going in one direction. It has a band of putting on the bottom so I'm wondering if the lifter was stuck when I first got it running and it just fucked it. I've decided to put a new (used) cam in it as I can get one for $50 and the cheapest engine near me is $300. Any pointers on how to actually do the swap?

probably find a new timing chain also, it will be sloppy most likely, a stock one will be fine. 

 

i haven't done one before, but to get the cam out with the engine in the car, you'd need to pull all the lifters out, remove the distributor, remove the air con condenser, radiator and harmonic balancer (need a puller) timing cover should come off with sump on, but might be annoying when refitting with new crank seal advised and possibly a gear puller for the timing gear on the crank(although i've got these off without a puller several times with some gentle levering with prybar/screw driver etc)
cam should come out 

[XF EDDIE 127]

I might be getting a new mild cam and lifters for cheap. Would this be ok to run with the stock manifolds and carby and would this enable me to tune for more power or would I still be limited by the manifolds? Also is there a proper run in procedure for the crossflow or does it vary depending on manufacturer?

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

46 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

I might be getting a new mild cam and lifters for cheap. Would this be ok to run with the stock manifolds and carby and would this enable me to tune for more power or would I still be limited by the manifolds? Also is there a proper run in procedure for the crossflow or does it vary depending on manufacturer?

 

The stock car racing guys, made an art form of getting power from standard parts,

so yeah I reckon you'll be ok.

 

Mild cam usually means a 'towing cam' - just a bit more torque basically, nothing crazy.

 

Use break-in oil, or mineral oil at the least,

with assembly goo on all the cam lobes, as u install it.

 

With the engine idling, check the lifters and pushrods are spinning as they open/close the valves.

(mark top of lifters and side of pushrods, with some whiteout or similar.)

No spinning = cam will wipe out in short order.

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

15 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

The stock car racing guys, made an art form of getting power from standard parts,

so yeah I reckon you'll be ok.

 

Mild cam usually means a 'towing cam' - just a bit more torque basically, nothing crazy.

 

Use break-in oil, or mineral oil at the least,

with assembly goo on all the cam lobes, as u install it.

 

With the engine idling, check the lifters and pushrods are spinning as they open/close the valves.

(mark top of lifters and side of pushrods, with some whiteout or similar.)

No spinning = cam will wipe out in short order.

 

Thanks for the advice. I did noticed that the fucked up cylinders weren't spinning so I thought something was up. If I start it after installing the new cam and get no spinning am I just fucked or is there something I could do to save it?

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

4 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Thanks for the advice. I did noticed that the fucked up cylinders weren't spinning so I thought something was up. If I start it after installing the new cam and get no spinning am I just fucked or is there something I could do to save it?

 

If they're not spinning, switch the engine off, to save the components.

It will mean dodgy cam lobes and/or dodgy lifters.

 

Good lifters have a convex shape to the end of them - easily checked before installation.

Properly ground cam lobes, have a slight taper to one side.

These attributes combined, cause the spin.

[XF EDDIE 127]

Any recommendations for break in oil? Asso what do I run after I break in the cam

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

2 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Any recommendations for break in oil? Asso what do I run after I break in the cam

 

I'm unsure on the best break-in oil,

for every-day oil, I run 15w40 Diesel (mineral) oil, as it usually has higher levels of zinc, etc.

[XF EDDIE 127]

Hey a bit unrelated but do you think a 2.5" exhaust and headers would actually make a difference with the new cam or should I just stick with the stock manifold and size when I rebuild the exhaust?

[deankxf 20,743]

49 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

Hey a bit unrelated but do you think a 2.5" exhaust and headers would actually make a difference with the new cam or should I just stick with the stock manifold and size when I rebuild the exhaust?

if the cam is stock, keep the exhaust stock unless you just want NOISE, 
you won't get any performance gain from exhaust, as it's not a restriction with the stock engine

 

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 hour ago, deankxf said:

if the cam is stock, keep the exhaust stock unless you just want NOISE, 
you won't get any performance gain from exhaust, as it's not a restriction with the stock engine

 

The cam I'm putting is a mid range grind(no clue on specifics) so a bit more then stock and according to the guy I'm getting it off it should have a slightly lumpy exhaust. I gotta get a full exhaust system after the one on it collapsed driving through some grass so I'm wondering if I'm the size upgrade will get any more power. If not I'll just get the new one made in the stock size.

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

IMO, x-series utes are quite loud in the cab, even with a stock exhaust.

 

At the most, I'd probably go with either one size up in pipe diameter and stock style (tri-flow) mufflers.

OR Stock pipe diameter, with a chambered muffler.

 

XG ute stock/factory exhausts are pretty much direct fit, but larger diameter piping.

[XF EDDIE 127]

1 minute ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

IMO, x-series utes are pretty loud in the cab, even with a stock exhaust.

 

At the most, I'd probably go with either one size up in pipe diameter and stock style (tri-flow) mufflers.

OR Stock pipe diameter, with a chambered muffler.

 

XG ute stock/factory exhausts are pretty much direct fit, but larger diameter piping.

Yeah Im planning to not go too crazy on exhaust. I dailyed a ba wagon that was running open manifolds after the exhaust fell off and that killed my love of loud cars. At most I'm planning to do 2.5" with a stock sounding muffler but I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading from the cast manifold and 2.25" exhaust to some headers and a 2.5" exhaust 

[deankxf 20,743]

14 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

Yeah Im planning to not go too crazy on exhaust. I dailyed a ba wagon that was running open manifolds after the exhaust fell off and that killed my love of loud cars. At most I'm planning to do 2.5" with a stock sounding muffler but I'm wondering if it's worth upgrading from the cast manifold and 2.25" exhaust to some headers and a 2.5" exhaust 

one of the quickest mild crossflows i've been in, actually 2 of them both ran the stock exhaust manifold and stepped it straight to 2.5" as soon as possible off that flange. 

so that would be plenty good enough in my opinion. 

 

I'm not a fan of extractors generally, they usually melt things like throttle cables and starter motors and have a tendency to crack and leak etc. 

 

that said, i've had several cars with extractors also, but i'd not go out and buy a set unless they were good used ones for $50 odd for eg. 

[XF EDDIE 127]

14 minutes ago, deankxf said:

one of the quickest mild crossflows i've been in, actually 2 of them both ran the stock exhaust manifold and stepped it straight to 2.5" as soon as possible off that flange. 

so that would be plenty good enough in my opinion. 

 

I'm not a fan of extractors generally, they usually melt things like throttle cables and starter motors and have a tendency to crack and leak etc. 

 

that said, i've had several cars with extractors also, but i'd not go out and buy a set unless they were good used ones for $50 odd for eg. 

That might be the go. I like the stock look better but would like to squeeze as much as I can out of the Crossy without going too deep into the engine or changing the intake and carby. Also is the throttle cable melting common on these things. The one on there now is melted and the one on my f100 melted as well. If so is there anything I can do to protect the new one?

[deankxf 20,743]

17 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

That might be the go. I like the stock look better but would like to squeeze as much as I can out of the Crossy without going too deep into the engine or changing the intake and carby. Also is the throttle cable melting common on these things. The one on there now is melted and the one on my f100 melted as well. If so is there anything I can do to protect the new one?

Yes you can get heat wrap sleeves to slide over the cable. They also help on clutch cables and wires and brake booster hoses if you can't shield the exhaust properly 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,235]

Stock XF exhaust is 2inch I think? @deankxf

Pretty sure my XE stock exhaust, is 1.75inch?

 

And from memory, XG/XH is 2.25inch.

 

A crossflow's main strength, is low-down torque.

To my knowledge, a too large exhaust diameter can make it doughy down low in the rev range,

negating benefits of a mild cam.

[Thom 6,694]

Stock XF exhaust is 2inch I think? [mention=291]deankxf[/mention]
Pretty sure my XE stock exhaust, is 1.75inch?
 
And from memory, XG/XH is 2.25inch.
 
A crossflow's main strength, is low-down torque.
To my knowledge, a too large exhaust diameter can make it doughy down low in the rev range,
negating benefits of a mild cam.

Xe and xf stock exhaust centre section is supposed to be 2 inch for all models, with carby engines having a 1.75inch tail pipes and efi crossflows having a 2 inch tail pipe, 2.25 works really well for stock to mild crossflows if you want a little bit of noise without it getting annoying

[XF EDDIE 127]

Does this mean I need a timing chain to?