XF EDDIE 124 Posted May 6 Hey just an update. I cheaped out and cleared out the old exhaust, tuned it up and generally got the car going good until this morning. I took it for a drive and once it warmed up I lost cylinder 1 (pulled all the wires until I got no reaction) Compression was at 90 however no 2 was the same and my starter is almost dead. Anyway once it cooled down no 1 came back and she ran good. Only thing I have changed is the oil (10w 40)with the original stuff being jet black and sludge in the motor. It does have some lifter noise so I'm wondering if the lifters are starving for oil. Tomorrow I'll put some engine oil flush in it and change it again and pop the valve cover when I get a new gasket. Any help on this would be appreciated as I had a roadworthy planned for this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 7 Either bad lead, bad spark-plug, sticking valve, or leaking head gasket. Swap lead/plug with another cylinder, to eliminate those. If it comes and goes, temperature dependent, I'd lean towards a valve or head gasket issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 7 One tip I can give, is not to just pull spark plug leads off while engine is running, the spark still wants to go somewhere and what can happen is it will look for the easiest place to go which is jumping across the windings in the coil and making it fail prematurely... 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 7 2 hours ago, Tazvan said: One tip I can give, is not to just pull spark plug leads off while engine is running, the spark still wants to go somewhere and what can happen is it will look for the easiest place to go which is jumping across the windings in the coil and making it fail prematurely... i did it on an MSD dissy on a valiant 265 hemi and thought i was going to die.. it's dangerous without plastic tongs. 16 hours ago, XF EDDIE said: Compression was at 90 however no 2 was the same check some others, 90 is very low, it's possibly blown headgasket between the 2. My lowest good running crossflow was 120psi on all, and my best standard one was 180psi. i had a crossflow run crap at idle (5cyls) but had good compression, and this was due to a blown intake gasket on one port. (possibly from a backfire) if the car's been sitting ages, the valves can get a layer of rust on them or stick open a bit in the guides etc.. i'd be tempted to just run it longer if it's not losing coolant or mixing oil/coolant running rough isn't a rwc issue most of the time (unless it stalls or smokes) 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 7 1 hour ago, deankxf said: i did it on an MSD dissy on a valiant 265 hemi and thought i was going to die.. it's dangerous without plastic tongs. I too have had a few shocks I'd prefer to forget!! 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XF EDDIE 124 Posted May 7 2 hours ago, deankxf said: i did it on an MSD dissy on a valiant 265 hemi and thought i was going to die.. it's dangerous without plastic tongs. check some others, 90 is very low, it's possibly blown headgasket between the 2. My lowest good running crossflow was 120psi on all, and my best standard one was 180psi. i had a crossflow run crap at idle (5cyls) but had good compression, and this was due to a blown intake gasket on one port. (possibly from a backfire) if the car's been sitting ages, the valves can get a layer of rust on them or stick open a bit in the guides etc.. i'd be tempted to just run it longer if it's not losing coolant or mixing oil/coolant running rough isn't a rwc issue most of the time (unless it stalls or smokes) I feel like an idiot for not thinking of the intake gasket. That would explain it all! I tried the starting fluid trick but got no difference anything else i could try to check it? I think the compression reading was low because the engine wasn't spinning over properly (The starter almost catches fire every time i turn the key and i had to beat it to life to get the car running). I fucked with it some more and finally got the oil to stop turning black within 5 seconds of startup, seemed to help with the lifter noise. Ive been driving it a bit and getting it up to temp and there's been no difference in how it runs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 7 Not really a recommended thing to do, but old school mechanics talked about slowly pouring Ajax powder into the carby at around 2000 rpm to help remove carbon/rust off the face of valve seats and valve faces to essentially attempt to help them seal better than B4... When engines have not been started for extended periods, as has been already mentioned they can have stuck valves and the like and valves can develop rust on the surfaces when held open, so when they then close for the first time in a while they don't seal and give poor compression figures... If this engine of yours is not in the best of health, maybe you've got nothing to lose by giving it a go... The alternatives are far more expensive if you can't afford that. Get the starter motor sorted first I'd say... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 7 2 hours ago, XF EDDIE said: I feel like an idiot for not thinking of the intake gasket. That would explain it all! I tried the starting fluid trick but got no difference anything else i could try to check it? I think the compression reading was low because the engine wasn't spinning over properly (The starter almost catches fire every time i turn the key and i had to beat it to life to get the car running). I fucked with it some more and finally got the oil to stop turning black within 5 seconds of startup, seemed to help with the lifter noise. Ive been driving it a bit and getting it up to temp and there's been no difference in how it runs. mine didn't respond to starter fluid, or anything sprayed around the manifold(was blown in an inaccessible spot above the dissy(behind p/s pump) i'd prefer 20W50 or even 25W50 in old wornout things, the other thing that is worth checking is if it's bent a pushrod (they are made of cheese) but if it runs ok at times i'd 99% rule that out. the mechanic i went to said it was probably a wiped cam lobe (common ish back in the day also) or a wiped out lifter, but it's compression was too high for that. i found it after it blew a head gasket at 5 and 6 and pulled the head off with everything still on it. 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 7 7 hours ago, deankxf said: My lowest good running crossflow was 120psi on all, and my best standard one was 180psi. My blue wagon, ran happily with 38psi on one, 70 something on another, and low 100's on others. On the other hand, the project XF SVO ute engine, measured at over 170psi. I wonder if it has a cam, since it seemed quite spritely to drive? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XF EDDIE 124 Posted May 8 I did another compression reading and it was back at 150. Must be a shitty gauge or something. I swapped plugs and leads and nothing changed but I might throw a new intake gasket just to see if that works, if not I'll pull the valve cover and start tearing into the valvetrain. By the way got any tips for rebuilding the starter or is it a run it till it dies kinda thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 8 Get a multimeter and do an Ohms resistance test on the leads to know if they are actually any good! I just restored a starter motor and it's not a 5 min job and the brushes will have to be replaced most likely, thats why they will wind over slowly until they just stop... It could be the solenoid, cleaning the electrical contacts will work for a while... Smaller E-series starter motors will fit XF also... 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 8 50 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said: I did another compression reading and it was back at 150. Must be a shitty gauge or something. I swapped plugs and leads and nothing changed but I might throw a new intake gasket just to see if that works, if not I'll pull the valve cover and start tearing into the valvetrain. By the way got any tips for rebuilding the starter or is it a run it till it dies kinda thing? i prefer the fat early starter (when rebuilt) but the new later starters are cheap (under $100 online) and you can try a used one for under $50 including postage (here's the cheapest i just found on ebay in 3 seconds) https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251480920729?itmmeta=01HXC1MGTXJ8SG7FZJJZ5GDQRS&hash=item3a8d6e5299:g:GiIAAOxyCGNTKmMZ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4M0kjadIXOgEN4h6ffsWcKpoJyVTJCT%2Fn5ZmXcXX5WArhAdJUdLl95lMbyKv4MMb5eCF2DEZ2Z4Ib3F7rV3HFl28eQK0HidM0bznO91BnH6fLt8P%2FqQF8lyzLPDUOYpkKdjwhA%2B%2F7WUmcMDpalldWbTCx7ITAlskoAlK5HL149EoGIweal03xhHiL6LEQ0dqeJNXsL5txlBWSBDCD2%2FkjcTsAlvdJeSZa78G7WnKxx3iIMI4jRI9YVpQKWzGW%2FMl19Fws2OVrAP6JhCmHuyHz1Zn%2FQtE8u2CIrRfxURM3Q%2B5|tkp%3ABk9SR8SN0oHrYw if you hot wire the trigger post on the starter and it's same , i'd just get another starter. (after making sure the earths on the block/battery and other connections are all clean and tight and wiggled the starter relay. 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XF EDDIE 124 Posted May 8 Ill pull it off and clean up the solenoid contacts. the post in the solenoid is loose and shoots sparks out of it every time i start it so ill tighten that up. Id like to keep the original size starter because of that classic sound but if cant get this one working good will an au starter fit? 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 8 48 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said: Ill pull it off and clean up the solenoid contacts. the post in the solenoid is loose and shoots sparks out of it every time i start it so ill tighten that up. Id like to keep the original size starter because of that classic sound but if cant get this one working good will an au starter fit? yeah AU one fits, the good thing about them is they are lighter, and smaller(further from the heat of the exhaust) they don't seem to last 20yrs like the old ones though 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 8 9 hours ago, Tazvan said: Smaller E-series starter motors will fit XF also... Even BA-BF starters fit x-series I believe? But yes, if an x-series still had it's original date-code matching Bosch starter/alternator etc, I'd always prefer rebuilding the original. The old/fat body (non-gear reduction) Bosch starters have replaceable brushes, and replaceable bronze bush bearings also. 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 8 This is the Xg starter that I gave a freshen up, was difficult to find brushes, but got some eventually... I had a spare, so I haven't fitted this back in yet... My Xf big starter has to be forced in because of extractor clearance, so the smaller ones are better in that respect 1 1 SPArKy_Dave and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 9 3 hours ago, Tazvan said: This is the Xg starter that I gave a freshen up, was difficult to find brushes, but got some eventually... Where did u find new brushes? I need some for my late grandma's ED Fairmont starter. Fun fact! XG starters changed internally, from 93-95 I have one of each XG (ute/pvan), and they always had a different starter sound. I just assumed one had a non-original starter, but looked up the date-codes one day, and they're both the original bosch units. There must be a gear-reduction difference, between EB/ED (early XG) and EF (late XG) bosch starters? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 9 I can't be sure the XG (95 model) one was original to the car, but is definitely a Bosch one... I have 1&1/2 spare 4.0L motors here, so the spare starter is currently in the XG (also Bosch, but different number)... NAPA is where I got the brushes from...$23 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 9 41 minutes ago, Tazvan said: I can't be sure the XG (95 model) one was original to the car, but is definitely a Bosch one... Grab the 3 digit stamped date code off the body of the starters, and I can tell u when each one was made. 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 9 470 = October 1994 569 = September 1995 906 = Manufacturing Plant - Clayton, Melbourne, Australia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 9 49 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said: 470 = October 1994 569 = September 1995 906 = Manufacturing Plant - Clayton, Melbourne, Australia Thanks Dave That tells me one thing, the spare starter most likely come from the EL/EF spare, not the EA... How do you get the month's out of the number? 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 9 2 minutes ago, Tazvan said: How do you get the month's out of the number? I have a copy of the Bosch date-code schedule, going back to the 70's 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XF EDDIE 124 Posted May 9 Good news and bad news. The bad news is that the back plastic bit of the solenoid has a huge crack going all the way through. The good news is that all the problems were caused by a burnt washer connecting the feed cable. A bit of emry tape and a new washer later shes spinning over just fine. Now to fix the other million issues with this car 1 1 Tazvan and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XF EDDIE 124 Posted May 14 Hey just wondering does anyone have the torque spec for the intake manifold Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
