Panko

Well the car is running again. 
 

ECT sensor replaced, and first flick of the key it started. 
 

drives really well again in completely stock form, however i now have it losing power with wide open throttle. 
 

im guessing the AFM is adjusted incorrectly. Yes in the process of trying to get it to run, i tried adjusting AFR screw in the top of the vane meter. I just dont know which way it is out. 

2 minutes ago, Mr Polson said:

Same ECU coolant sensor for XF right through to EL

 

awesome thanks. 

 

well in that case, im quite excited that this has hopefully fixed the problem...

 

ill keep you all posted 

Well i don't bloody believe it, I think I have found the issue. 

 

In diagnostics mode I kept getting error code 21, which is ECT out of range. So tonight I disconnected the ECT plug, and bridged the pins in the plug with a jump wire, and the car fired up and ran straight away, and ran smooth. throttle was plenty responsive, etc. It obviously ran extremely rich still because the ECU had no idea what temp the engine was at. 

 

I have ordered a new ECT sensor which ill have tomorrow morning and hopefully have the car running good tomorrow. 

 

This sensor failing over time, might be the reason I have never really gotten the ISC valve working with the EL computer on my conversion. It may also explain why more recently ive had an issue with the EL computer making the engine run super rich, have no power and not being able to idle, when it had been running for about 20-30 minutes. possibly because the failing sensor would start giving a false reading at a certain temperature making the EL ECU freak out. then once it was passed that temp range, come good again...

 

Are EL and XF ECT sensors different? as in different resistance, therefore the computers looking for different resistance to make an accurate reading? Maybe the EL ECU is what killed my sensor if it is in fact looking for a different resistance? 

 

I will post here if the car is running properly again with the new sensor tomorrow.  

Just now, deankdx said:

not really helpful advice.. but weren't you considering getting haltech on this in future? 

Yeah i am. 
i have an Elite 1500 sitting here. But was hoping to just return the car back to reliable stock and cruise it for now until the new engine goes in. 
however, there is someone making patch harnesses now for EECIV to Haltech, so its looking more likely ill just go straight to the haltech. 

Ok small update. 

 

had the car running again today, still like a pig, i decided to unplug the AFM/vane meter to see what happened. for a moment it idled up and ran smoother then cracked the sads and died. even after i plugged it back in it wouldnt recover. 

 

I finally had a crack at running diagnostics on the car, and continually getting error code 21, which is engine coolant temperature. (ECT) 

 

The car refuses to start with this plugged in or not, so is it possible this is the issue? the sensor and/or wiring is in a bad way? 

according to my ford workshop manual, it could cause it to not start, but really? 

 

And if so, why would it start fine (but run crap) with EL computer, and not XF computer? 

 

Why with the EL computer is the engine not under vacuum, but XF computer it is? 

 

Im tearing my hair out, and honestly after owning this car for 14 years (after my dad owned it 16 years) this makes me really sad that the poor old girl is completely immobile  

With the diff ratio, even though 2.92 is only 5% different to the 2.77, it made a big difference to the way my car drove. 
XF Ghia, EFi crossflow with an early T5 (1988 build date) 

 

depending which year the box is, will depend on its 1st and 5th gear ratios. 
 

So if its an early gearbox like mine, matched with a 2.92 diff, it will do the same or similar rpm to a car fitted with a late (EL) T5 and 3.23 diff ratio. 
 

@Mr Polson and I have proven this. 
 

So yes i drove around for a long time with the 2.77 behind my T5, it was fine, maybe a little laboured at 100 in 5th. When i went to the 2.92, it meant it got off the line better, and cruising in 5th at 100 meant unless i really wanted to get going quickly, I could leave it in 5th to overtake without issue. 

17 minutes ago, xd4.1efisc said:

Did you use the correct wiring diagram when you changed the pins back.

There is Pre Adr 37 (leaded) and Post Adr 37 (unleaded).

The pin locations for the VAF and some other stuff is different.

 

Yeah I have been looking at schematics all afternoon. 

 

but there may still be some discrepancies. I know about the changes, and my brain is hurting after looking at schematics.  

14 minutes ago, XCeed said:

What's the condition of your loom? 35 years old, changing this and that, you might have a broken wire. Maybe break out the multi-meter and check for continuity on each and every wire involved in engine management. From one end to the other of each wire, make sure it's a dead short.

Yeah thats my next test. But i need a second set of hands for that. 

27 minutes ago, Outback Jack said:

Is the isc wired around the right way? I seem to remember you changed it at some point or changed the isc. I reckon that or just double check your pin outs.

 

Sent from my motorola edge 20 pro using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Yeah it is. 
 

what. I did with that was i remote mounted an E series ISC valve. Put it back to stock XF now 

Bit of an update. 
 

After trying everything i can think of, including bypassing all vacuum ancillaries, including booster, changing ISC solenoids, trying different timing settings, cleaning dizzy cap and rotor button, you name it i have tried. 
I decided to swap the ECU for the J3 chipped EL unit that i removed from the car, but left ALL XF sensors in place. 
- AFM vane meter

- ISC valve

 

There is no MAP sensor, IAT sensor or o2 sensor, yet the car started straight away on the EL ecu. 
it ran like a pig, but it ran, and was able to reliably start it again and again. 
 

Weirdly, the engine was NOT affected by vacuum leaks with the EL computer, or affected by unplugging the AFM. 

so the issue is definitely electrical related, but what that issue is, I have no idea.  

15 minutes ago, Outback Jack said:

Do you have the vac lines right way around. One off throttle body goes to air cleaner, one on intake goes to pcv valve on motor.

Just worth a check, and did you torque the manifold up?

Seems to be what happens when the motor is reading super lean on the O2 sensor, so ecu Richens it right up to compensate.

Check all your loom connections too.

 

Sent from my motorola edge 20 pro using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

On the xf there is no vac line to air cleaner. There is one from TB to rocker cover, pre butterfly, there is the PCV, post butterfly, then ISC valve pipes pre and post butterfly. All are correct, because they are alp moulded hoses and can’t be put on incorrectly. 
 

Yeah i know what you mean, but ive gone back to XF ECU which doesn’t use an oxygen sensor. 

Ok. Had it running again this morning, everything still pointing towards a vacuum leak. 

i have now blocked everything that is vacuum related, including brake booster, and it refuses to start again. 
Basically it floods when it dies then i can’t seem to get it to go again. 
 

im now wondering maybe still something electrical.

Coil?

ignition module is only 12 months old

Fitted new plugs last night

Could a failing TPS do this? 
i have tried nearly everything and can’t seem to get it 

Ok guys, bit of an update, still open to ideas. 
 

it appears to be a vacuum leak. I have crosschecked my wiring with a ford service manual, everything is as it should be. 
 

i managed to get the car started today, and was able to keep it alive. 
 

so it runs very rough, and very rich. Struggles to idle and is hunting. 
 

If i rev it up, it hangs for a bit then struggles to settles. 
 

i pulled the dipstick out a tad to see if it reacts to that and it does, it tried to recover but stalled. Then flooded and was unable to start it again. 
 

Ive removed the egr and jerry rigged a blank for it, because ive had one fail on me years ago causing similar. 
I have some good vacuum hose that im going to use to completely loop the vacuum circuit back on itself to see if that is the issue (from intake manifold) 

 

has anyone had a vacuum tank split? Because I can not find any other obvious vacuum leaks  

 

open to ideas. 

9 hours ago, deankdx said:

dipstick even used to be an issue on those things, oil cap, that other breather thing on the rocker cover to the throttle body.. 

wonder if it could be something that's been there the whole time causing issues with the E series ECU, like could it be a manifold gasket or the runners and the E series was better at masking it

not the dipstick. 
maybe oil cap, it still locks down tight. 
 

I did go along and torque all the intake manifold bolts to make they were tight. 
 

im thinking maybe either the ISC valve is doing something funky, maybe solenoid is wigging out, or the intake plenum is leaking somewhere, which im sure id be able to hear. 
 

i swapped out the plenum when i did this conversion, because i had to add an IAT sensor and I didn’t want to drill my original. 
I stuffed up the first one and had to black it, so maybe the blacking plug has started leaking 

10 minutes ago, deankdx said:

any chance you've still got the IAC plumbed backwards? 

 

My EB XR6 back in the day a neighbour bumped a vac hose off somewhere and it bellowed so much black smoke i thought it was stuffed.. stuck hose on .. fixed. 

 

On the xf cant get the ISC valve backwards because the pipes are moulded 

 

yeah im thinking its a vacuum leak but don’t know where from 

9 minutes ago, XCeed said:

Hi Panko,

 

Do you have a way to log the data from your sensors, like a Moates Quarterhorse can do? They're pricey at around AUD $500 but it will plug into both your XF EEC IV and EL EEC V. Hook it up to a laptop and (hopefully after forking out $500) find out what's going on. Then tune the crossy to your liking.

No I don’t 

 

i was running a J3, but no interface to read data. 
 

I have a Haltech Elite ECU to go in the car eventually when the new crossflow goes in. 
but for the time being was just trying to go back to old faithful stock xf ecu so i could drive the car again without problems 

7 minutes ago, gerg said:

Actually it shouldn't run any richer than it does at cold startup. Can you get it to fire ok on aerostart (pull fuel pump fuse or relay)?

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk
 

I haven’t tried that

10 minutes ago, gerg said:

Do you think it might be a crook coolant temp sensor which is giving you a bum-steer, as in it wasn't the ECU after all?

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk
 

it would explain running rich when it does decide to start, but would it allow it to start and run for 10 seconds then conk out? 

Hi guys, 

 

It's hard to believe that after owning my Ghia wagon for 14 years, after my dad owning it since 1992, i am here stuck with a car that refuses to start. 

 

I believe its 100% self inflicted but am after advice. 

 

During 2020, I experimented with converting the car to run an EL ECU with J3. I had some success with it, but in recent months its been a total pig, and not reliable. 

 

Ive been trying to convert it back to the original XF ECU. Ive swapped everything back to how it should be for XF. made sure the ECU pinout is back to how it should be, plugged the vane AFM back in. as far as im aware, everything as it should be to run on the XF ECU as per factory standard. 

 

The issue is, the car will start and run for about 10 seconds, very richly, then die, and refuse to start again. after sitting for half hour or so, it will start, blow lots of black smoke, run like a pig, clear itself, run fine for less than a minute then die, and the process starts all over again. 

 

I don't know what ive missed, and I miss being able to just turn the key and drive it. 

 

Before i attempted the EL ECU conversion, it was always reliable, and ive fucked something up, and my poor car is suffering. 

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. 

15 hours ago, hendrixhc said:

Very nice, love the colour.

i can’t wait to get it out in the bright sun. Being metallic it changes colour in the sun. Really pops. 

Big day today. 

The Escort is home at last  

 

Covered in dust

 

 

First time washing it since December 2020 *not me in the photo* 

 

 

all nice and clean at last. ready to go into its new home. 

 

 

this is how you clean the inside, right? its fine, there is no interior at the moment 

 

 

Engine bay looks so pretty 

 

 

 

In it's new home. the shed is a little squishy with the car running this way across the shed, but once i get some shelving into the shed and a bit more storage ill have space to move. 

 

 

Mark sent these through today. 

Bonnet and grill fitted and aligned.  

 

 

This makes me smile seeing it look a little more like a car again 

 

 

26 minutes ago, 2redrovers said:

".. Hahahaha I'm a livin joke.."

That's awesome to see. Car is going to be perfection when it's done.

Wonder if that other box is back together and functional too?

Close to perfect. Will never be perfect 

 

I haven’t spoken to him since. Id say not, or if its together, but not in the car. 
 

id imagine mines the first one to go in. 

55 minutes ago, deankdx said:

#rotissaryrestoration

looks amazing! 

 

CV joint boot came to mind for the tunnel to gearstick boot.(might go over where the rack boot where the zip tie is even)

 

is that @2redrovers panel van there? looks almost finished  

I have the interior rubber Boot that goes onto the body. Hopefully fits over the rack boot. 
that is not Rod’s unfortunately :( 

Today was a big day. 

the car is finally back on its wheels after about 12 months. 

 

Subframe and driveline looks good in there 

 

 

 

The modified Type 9 gearbox fits perfectly, to a tee. @2redrovers

The boot is a steering rack boot to seal the shifter from crud. 

 

 

Brakes well and truely fill the 13" wheels. 

 

 

I still have a lot of work ahead of me, but it is at least back on its wheels and rolling. 

 

 

Thanks to Peter for the following photos. 

Me with my head somewhere under the car lining things up. 

 

 

getting the gearbox to line up...its close, but perfect to a tee. 

*cameo featuring Mark's crazy Zetec powered panel van* 

 

 

Done, and on its way back down to earth. those brakes, though

 

 

last bit of spanner turning for the day

 

 

 

Its nice to have it rolling again, and should be home within a couple weeks. 
I still have loads to do. the front seats are off getting upholstered now. 

once its home the assembly can start. 

I have a bit of electrical work to do, to neaten up the engine bay, couple more brake lines to make, fuel lines to make, paint the brake booster bracket, rebuild booster, paint fuel tank. lots of work ahead of me, but at least it can now come home.