Manifold working range

[gerg 10,871]

Actually scratch that idea... Too many bad stories going around about them. Just been reading up and it's not pretty.

[Olive Xm 34]

Are the bad stories the ones back in 07-09. I just cannot get any later info. Maybe they are better now.

[gerg 10,871]

Rumour has it that they were sourced from NZ which means China. Similar issues to P--C--p gear so you could almost say that they were one and the same. AFD wouldn't replace the faulty parts, only return and "repair". Some had to go back 4 times and in the end, looked rather 2nd hand.

 

Things like ports ground through and epoxied back up to clear pushrods, chambers cast out of whack past the head gasket, rocker bolt holes not square to pedestal, rocker geometry incorrect (by admission from the company), list goes on. Sounds like déjà vu to me

 

The price does sound attractive but do a bit of homework first. If it's the same people running it now, then I'd be reluctant to do business with them.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

AFD moved manufacturing off shore to try and keep up with demand, they did one batch and it has cost them immensly, they dropped the supplier immediately and rectified all issues (most people got their heads exchanged at no cost to them), i had the same worry until i called Dave and he confirmed the situation for me.

now the issue you find with AFD is sometime's you are waiting on heads. i haven't used the 4vs but have built a motor with the 2vs.

quality is 100% what you should expect and Dave never recommended people using the wrong rocker arm ratio's once he realised there was a production issue.
 

jason buys bare heads and builds them to spec to suit the build hes doing, google murphys speed shop toowoomba. the guy does some serious cars and is just as picky as frank down at dandy engines.

 

http://murphysspeedshop.com.au/#/home/

 

either head will be suffice it just comes down to what you're willing to part with $$ wise.

obviously the CHIs are a cut above (and i actually know the person who casts CHI heads) but they come with a hefty price tag.

as for filling with parts from precision intl, probably wouldn't go down that route, just work out what you need and buy it, if you call jason up at toowoomba, say trev sent you. tell him what you plan to do and he can probably organise a head and cam combo for you, get him to set up the heads, he may charge a little bit but he is a huge cut above most people in terms of quality. he triple checks everything and builds it to last. check out what he uploads to FB, not many put up the in detail stuff he does, especially the behind the scenes stuff with valve honing etc

him and dandy engines are the only 2 builders i would have build an engine for me.

[gerg 10,871]

I understand XC the reason behind the dramas but the fact still stands that he used a less than second rate manufacturer and passed their work off as his own. From some anecdotal accounts of how some customers were treated and a distinct lack of transparency at the time on the part of AFD has me thinking hard about choosing this product over another.

 

One of those said instances of bad treatment is when the Clevo rockers wouldn't line up with the valve tips. Apparently the advice given by the company was to use windsor-type rockers and then it would be right. Not my personal account but when there is more than just one rumour circulating, you can bet there is some truth to it.

 

If you're a member of Ford Forums you can see an entire thread devoted to this issue. It's from 2009, but has pictures of said problems as well as personal accounts.:

 

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=11269345&page=2

 

I really hope you're right XC, and that these heads are now of the quality that they profess them to be. If so, they've lifted their game to where they should be, but it's hard to erase that stain of poor quality and denial of such (at the time).

[Olive Xm 34]

That's what I want to know, if they are right now, you guys have all the info that I have found. I just would like to hear from people that have used them recently, nobody seems to talk about these heads after 09 ish.

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

call jason he can verify quality with you, he's not an AFD distributor either.

i've used the 2vs since then, no issues at all.

gerg that thread was locked for a reason, i was reading it all back when it was happening. there was a bit of a personal issue between a few guys and dave.

CHI has had it's issues too, like pitting in the alloy head face, port misalignment, valves pinching etc and were a pain in the ass to deal with regarding that issue. took me 3 months to get my heads replaced, and i had literally just bought them, weren't even fitted, just unwrapped, i ended up getting a refund.

[gerg 10,871]

Good to hear that side of it too. I heard their cast iron versions also had trouble with cracking on the head face, due to them using the same thicker casting moulds as the ally one instead of your typical thin-wall iron casting. A thick head face supposedly creates cooling problems with iron.

[blownxd393 25]

The early afd heads were aussy cast. Ive used all the offshore 2v, 4vS and 4vR and still have my aussy cast 228 4v which are a nice peice.

 

Alot of scattered info above guys some true some not. What did you want to know ?

 

Also the rockers not lining up with the valve tip story, cut the guide plate and you can manipulate them till correct then spot weld, can be time consuming or just put some yt platunums on it or better T&Ds

 

On the offshore heads you will need to like most clearance tbe push rod bosses to run 3/8 or 7/16 push rods.

 

Cheers

[gerg 10,871]

Alot of scattered info above guys some true some not. What did you want to know ?

 

Also the rockers not lining up with the valve tip story, cut the guide plate and you can manipulate them till correct then spot weld, can be time consuming or just put some yt platunums on it or better T&Ds

 

On the offshore heads you will need to like most clearance tbe push rod bosses to run 3/8 or 7/16 push rods.

 

 

Cheers

 

Two separate issues there xd393.

 

The rockers not sitting right were due to bolt holes drilled/tapped in the wrong spot in relation to the mounting pad, and not perpendicular to the surface. So bolting down the rocker would have the tip in the wrong spot and the fulcrum touching one side of the pad but having 0.020" gap on the other. If the valve is machined in one spot and the rocker pivot is in another, that's where the rocker will sit. Moving the guide plate will do nothing to correct this.

 

Clearancing the pushrods was another issue, where going far enough into the outside of the port runner to clear the pushrod had you well inside the port wall. Their fix (pictured on that thread i linked to) was to epoxy up the port wall after the clearancing was done. This was on a brand new set of heads. I'd say there was some casting/core shift problems.

 

I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. I don't want to rubbish any company without good cause for it. Without the kind of scrutiny like what we're applying here, imagine what sort of shit companies would get away with. One famous company springs to mind...

[blownxd393 25]

you explained that very well.

 

your right about the epoxi. Ive done this to my set of 4v-R heads too. I have no issues with this personally but many do.

[gerg 10,871]

Anyway back on topic for a second... Olive XM do you reckon retarding the cam would help your combo produce the goods past 6000? I should imagine that CHI 190s wouldn't be running out of breath by then, at the power level you're seeing.

[blownxd393 25]

I dont think its off track Gerg, the OP was asking about afd heads on the page prevous. I just offered my two cents on that subject to help out.

 

Now if the subject is falling over at 6k on std chi 2v heads and 393ci. What is the exhaust system specs and have the valve springs pressures been checked and what are the installed heights. Also what icl was this cam dialed in at. Cheers

[gerg 10,871]

Nah not having a go, just had a thought about the initial question (about power dropping after 6k) that's all, and wanted to show that the possibility of the camshaft timing being out pertains to that original question, not the heads.

 

All good advice on here, everyone has their own experiences so collectively we should be able to come to some sort of an answer.

[blownxd393 25]

No issue thanks for that Gerg thats us sorted.

 

Ok we have a few un answered questions here the op can help us out with if he has not already removed these heads. Please let me tell you iam no expert but just passionate on the subject.

 

Also please excuse if i missed it previously but what is the static comp, stall and rear gear are we running in this car.

Dont forget the exhaust specs and icl dial in info from memory.

 

Thanks

[Trev Vaa 1,185]

Anyway back on topic for a second... Olive XM do you reckon retarding the cam would help your combo produce the goods past 6000? I should imagine that CHI 190s wouldn't be running out of breath by then, at the power level you're seeing.

they would be actually, they are only a 190cc port, that's tiny for a 393 and they will be close to their choke point, the cam will be designed to suit the heads as well, so that is a factor, if it's making power it's making power, just not revving its tits off.

as for the AFD discussion, i've said my piece, i'll leave it there, i don't doubt the CHIs are superior to AFD,

but as to the question the quality of the AFDs, i have seen plenty used with no issues and didn't have any issues with the ones i used on a 2v motor i built.

[blownxd393 25]

This engine is making 400rwhp with 2v heads which would make me happy with such a basic combo.

 

Has this car actually been down the drag strip ?

[gerg 10,871]

Yeah fair enough i'd be a happy camper with that too, but stock 2Vs and CHI 2Vs are two very different animals. The CHIs have the benefit of 40 years of advancement plus computer modeling. I guess at this point Stumper could chime in and elaborate on just how much better they might be compared to factory ones.

[blownxd393 25]

Your absolutly right Gerg. But we are talking chi 2v heads here not cast iron units. Revised combustion chambers, moved plug location and runner over the ssr but we still have a 2v archititure. Would be great to hear from the owner of the car with the above question. Not tring to steal your lunch btw.

 

Id be suprized if Sean has had these chi heads on his bench but ive been wrong before.

[Olive Xm 34]

The engine builder dialed in the cam to their specs, so I don't know if changing it will help, and have not had it dynoed with the tfc to see if it improves.

No has not seen the track.

[blownxd393 25]

Thanks for your replyolive xm.

 

If its at all possible, Could you ask your builder what icl the cam was dialed in at. What is your exhaust specs if you dont mind sharing. Diff ratio and stall size.

 

Are you happy with the performance with the tfc or disapointed ?

[blownxd393 25]

Olive xm,

 

Please feel free to ask any questions on the afd heads.

 

Like i said earlier i am no expert but have used all Daves heads inc the afd 2v heads. Ask away.

My opinion will vary to others but thats just what you get on the net.

 

Thanks Carl

[Olive Xm 34]

 

I'm running 1 3/4 4into1 pacemakers twin 3" to the diff x pipe and single muffler in each and 2.5 tail pipes. I'm sure flow is not an issue as it's quite loud.

 

Toploader and 9" with 3.5's

 

The cam,,, I could ask but when it comes to their cams its secret squriel time. I had to ask that many times to get the info that I have.

 

I am only trying to find out if AFD are any Good and if people have used the in the last couple of years? As I don't want to throw cash away on crap and when ever you get info its old and not pretty.

 

AFD quoted me for complete heads sp4vs, roller cam, lifters and intake all comp cam stuff $4500. Was told easy 600 hp no extra cnc as cast and can use current comp gold roller rockers

 

CHI quote (not from CHI) 225 3v heads setup, roller cam, lifters, intake, cnc intake, and shaft roller rockers $7k 620-630 hp, gold rockers now no good. Even take the rockers away and its still $6k.

 

I like the TFC it feels like it has more legs than the air gap. When I swaped it over I had the oil issues in the intake, so I did not get a good comparison with the ass Dyno. Now the clutch is shagged and thinking of going auto if I don't get the heads.

[slydog 7,873]

I'll ask Jarrod what he runs on his 408 but he makes 750hp (engine dyno) de-tuned to 730 on 98 with CHI heads and dual plane air gap.

 

Just converted the car to twin 3.5" with X pipe and it is quieter @ lower revs and idle then the big single was. Yes he runs a solid roller but the cam is only 262 duration but 700 plus lift with 103-104 lobe sep and it is revved to 7500 when raced. He is toying with the idea of a hi rise single plane and a dominator but that means a new bonnet plus scoop or hole. 

[Olive Xm 34]

That XT is an animal if I had his cam and heads my block would explode. The CHI site says 10-15 hp less for duel plane compared to single.