Tazvan 92 Posted April 27 Hi all, It's become necessary to give my carb some attention! Not sure exactly what is happening yet, but it has just begun to start like it's flooded and needs some throttle to help it clear. After a little warming up it will idle, the idle mixture can be closed completely and it will continue to idle fine... I figured a complete gasket/diaphragm kit is in order to hopefully fix the problem or problems it has...so after reading many of the informative 34 ADM threads on here, it made me realise there is many possibilities other than just the carb itself that can cause issues... So do I grab one of these kits in this link: https://classiccarbs.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=4108 or do I send it to these guys who i guess can guarantee it to come back completely sorted, for I assume a lot of $$$... https://procarb.com.au/weber-adm-6cyl-remanufactured-carburettor-suit-xf-ford/ Maybe other options I'm not aware of? Hopefully you guys can steer me in the right direction... Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted April 29 Can anyone explain the purpose and operation of the circled device? My factory Ford XF repair manual calls it a two stage idle switch... If it is faulty, could this cause my previously mentioned issue, and are they available to buy? If not what can be done? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted April 29 4 hours ago, Tazvan said: Can anyone explain the purpose and operation of the circled device? My factory Ford XF repair manual calls it a two stage idle switch... If it is faulty, could this cause my previously mentioned issue, and are they available to buy? If not what can be done? that's the fuel cut solenoid (electric on XFs later) well, i'm not sure how it works on XEs, but on XF it shuts the idle circuit when ignition is cut so it doesn't run on. usually when there's an issue with them (broken wire on XF) they'll start on more throttle but will never idle. (due to idle circuit blocked by the plunger) if you want to LOOK first, undo all the diaphram covers(can see the 3 main ones in the pic above, they have a tendency to dry out and crack, and one of mine was pouring fuel in rich as anything) 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted April 29 Hi Dean, I reckon you're right about the leaking diaphragm because when removing the carb top cover next day after coming home, the fuel level seemed way too low in the bowl...not sure why the XE comment as it is an XF carb. The pic doesn't clearly show, but it has the (electric solenoid) as well. I'm trying to eliminate the 2 stage idle switch as another issue B4 reassembly, hence why I would like to understand the importance of the vacuum operated switch and deal with that as well. I try to subscribe to what the old man said to me as a kid, do it right the first time and you won't have to do it again... sometimes easier said than done Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted April 30 1 hour ago, Tazvan said: Hi Dean, I reckon you're right about the leaking diaphragm because when removing the carb top cover next day after coming home, the fuel level seemed way too low in the bowl...not sure why the XE comment as it is an XF carb. The pic doesn't clearly show, but it has the (electric solenoid) as well. I'm trying to eliminate the 2 stage idle switch as another issue B4 reassembly, hence why I would like to understand the importance of the vacuum operated switch and deal with that as well. I try to subscribe to what the old man said to me as a kid, do it right the first time and you won't have to do it again... sometimes easier said than done ah i didn't see that electric solenoid, that's where the idle jet is then. the other is possibly for idling up the engine if it's about to stall (air con switched on at idle etc) i haven't looked at one for many years, but the first thing i'd do regardless is just take the diaphragm covers off and check them, split, stiff etc = issues. (there's another on the inside of the top cover under the thing with the spring on it which i believe is a low vacuum enrichment part, as in going up a hill in a higher gear with low revs) do it once do it right is great, @SPArKy_Dave has listed links to geniune diaphram kits which would no doubt last longer than the repro stuff available today.(at repco etc) 2 Tazvan and SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted April 30 It's a vacuum power valve - opens up another passage, when low engine vacuum - ie WOT. They often go bad and stop holding a vacuum. Test by removing and sucking on it (or use portable vacuum tool), to check it holds a vacuum. Replacements are available on ebay for about $70 I believe? The plastic is orange coloured on the ebay ones. Fuelmiser used to be the only replacement option for the vacuum valve (aftermarket), but not sure if they still do them? Fuelmiser also were the only (aftermarket) gasket kits available, but there's a few others now. 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted April 30 Yes Dean, the first pic certainly wasn't clear on that. As I have read so much stuff on the subject, I couldn't remember where I had seen the info relevant to my question...so with your prompting I went back to Dave's thread and found it again. 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted April 30 1 hour ago, SPArKy_Dave said: It's a vacuum power valve - opens up another passage, when low engine vacuum - ie WOT. They often go bad and stop holding a vacuum. Test by removing and sucking on it (or use portable vacuum tool), to check it holds a vacuum. Replacements are available on ebay for about $70 I believe? The plastic is orange coloured on the ebay ones. Fuelmiser used to be the only replacement option for the vacuum valve (aftermarket), but not sure if they still do them? Fuelmiser also were the only (aftermarket) gasket kits available, but there's a few others now. I was suspect of this idle switch when I tried to twist the vacuum hose off and noticed that the plastic could turn in the metal body, which made me realise that it is probably no longer hermetically sealed and either not working at all or only partially... I feel like I'm getting a better understanding of these carbs now and will have a go at giving it a new lease of life. I've owned my 89' van since 99' and it has only recently begun to run differently. For a while I was running E10 which made it run beautifully, but now I wouldn't recommend it (for those who don't know, E10 is terrible for diaphragms) which is most likely the reason for the demise of my diaphragms... All in all, my van has been a very reliable daily for me over the years! Go the Blue Oval! 1 1 deankxf and SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 4 So I have mostly disassembled the carb and found the diaphragms a bit hard compared to new I assume. The power valve diaphragm is the worst and only one with the black surface disintegrating... 2 deankxf and SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 4 The 2 stage idle switch has definitely failed as it won't hold any vacuum what so ever... So after some reading it looks like I will need to get an idle jet holder to hold the jet that is in the failed switch, but I think I will step down to the suggested .60 instead... I haven't found anyone in Australia yet that can supply one... overseas I can... Is anyone is able to help me out with one of these, or suggest where I can get one here in Aus? This is the part needed below... 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 4 1 hour ago, Tazvan said: The 2 stage idle switch has definitely failed as it won't hold any vacuum what so ever... So after some reading it looks like I will need to get an idle jet holder to hold the jet that is in the failed switch, but I think I will step down to the suggested .60 instead... I haven't found anyone in Australia yet that can supply one... overseas I can... Is anyone is able to help me out with one of these, or suggest where I can get one here in Aus? This is the part needed below... only thing i can see from google is this on ebay(overseas) https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/292281633538 you could try weber performance (Melbourne) and see if they have it in Oz?https://www.weberperformance.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=6_268&products_id=631 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 4 I found that and more...but the freight seemed a little excessive Tried part number in weberperformance search, but nothing, they have plenty of jets but no holders... 1 1 SPArKy_Dave and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 6 So if I was to seal off the 2 stage switch, I assume I could still use that, but having no vacuum to operate it means that it won't switch between the initial .70 jet size down to the .55 size, therefore remaining at .70 constantly, would that be correct? 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 6 5 hours ago, Tazvan said: So if I was to seal off the 2 stage switch, I assume I could still use that, but having no vacuum to operate it means that it won't switch between the initial .70 jet size down to the .55 size, therefore remaining at .70 constantly, would that be correct? yeah infact i've seen those idle jet ones possibly on XEs without the 2 stage switch and vacuum to them(assume it's ported vacuum, but i can't remember if that vacuum shuts or opens it.) definitely worth trying. there's vacuum ports where some are vacuum at idle and some only get vacuum off idle, at worst case you could get it from a manifold tree to test it. and the worst would likely be that it runs on a bit when you turn the key off. That's about all i can think of anyway. it's likely there for pollution reasons (no unburned fuel after key is off) so that's not going to matter these days for one car on the road. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 7 20 hours ago, Tazvan said: So if I was to seal off the 2 stage switch, I assume I could still use that, but having no vacuum to operate it means that it won't switch between the initial .70 jet size down to the .55 size, therefore remaining at .70 constantly, would that be correct? Oh boy... I have now just read in my XF manual something I missed previously, which contradicts my perceived understanding of how the 2 stage idle switch functions... And now after pulling the .70 jet out (looked non removable by eye) I now see a .55 jet that is pushed by spring pressure into the inside of the .70 jet, therefore overriding it until vacuum pulls it away allowing it to become a .70 fuel flow for the time determined by the "Thermo Temp Switch" which is suggested in the above info... 1 1 SPArKy_Dave and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 7 Yeah, the vacuum valve itself is 2 stage, rather than being one of two external stages. That inner pintle/jet is what I've always tested, by pushing it in with my finger, I then cover the vacuum port with another finger and release the jet - to see if it holds in. 1 Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 7 Yeah mine is definitely cactus, the diaphragm is the culprit and still searching for a long term solution... I do have a spare crossflow from a wrecked XE ute that had way too much rust and I could use that Weber if it comes to it... 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 23 Over 20 years ago the wire on the right that goes to the PTC heater had broken off and it started using fuel at a phenomenal rate, got that sorted and it went back to normal... These 2 pics show that the gaskets and diaphragms were weeping at the bottom... Many of the surfaces were warped, so they were faced up with some wet n dry... The worst surface was the base of the carb body, it was a bit banana shaped (no B4 pic) and took some time to get it nice and flat again, which our former local carb restorer who has now retired said all the Weber's (34 ADM) go like that... 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 23 1 hour ago, Tazvan said: which our former local carb restorer who has now retired said all the Weber's (34 ADM) go like that... My carby bloke(RIP) said they OFTEN got air leaks from being done up too tight. He used to race a p76 in ipra class (Nigel Newman) 2 SPArKy_Dave and Tazvan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 25 The Weber is all back together with new gaskets and diaphragms and yes a new 2 stage idle switch... fitted it back on the motor and is running sweet! 2 SPArKy_Dave and deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPArKy_Dave 9,184 Posted May 25 From memory, 'UE', denotes a 3.3L Manual carb. 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 26 12 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said: From memory, 'UE', denotes a 3.3L Manual carb. Well I did a bit of looking and worked out my van is; "N" Engine- 4.1 "N" Trans- 3 speed column manual My Factory Ford XF Repair manual doesn't have N listed, but when I collected my new 2 stage switch he mentioned how the 3.3 carb only opened the secondary throttle plate to 3/4 open, which mine does... This page from Mr Polson's Weber thread, lists it as a 4.1 manual, but maybe that is more specific to XE ? 1 SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deankxf 20,694 Posted May 26 3 hours ago, Tazvan said: My Factory Ford XF Repair manual doesn't have N listed, but when I collected my new 2 stage switch he mentioned how the 3.3 carb only opened the secondary throttle plate to 3/4 open, which mine does. AH HA! this is something i remember from My brother's one (3.3 XF auto) hadn't seen it since (25yrs ago at least) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazvan 92 Posted May 26 9 hours ago, deankxf said: AH HA! this is something i remember from My brother's one (3.3 XF auto) hadn't seen it since (25yrs ago at least) The Weber I removed from the XE 3.3 motor has throttle plates that open up fully...?? and doesn't have a PTC heater basket under it...? 1 deankxf reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thom 6,686 Posted May 27 When I was 19 I had an xf wagon I got from the original owner, it had 60,000ks on it it was a 4.1 and was the slowest car I had ever driven (I even pulled the plugs and measured the stroke to make sure it was a 250 and not a 200) turns out it had a webber from a 3.3 on it previous owner swore black and blue the carb was original to the car, I put a webber off a 250 on it and it made a huge difference 2 deankxf and SPArKy_Dave reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
