86 XF Falcon Ute not starting

[XF EDDIE 206]

Just wondering how do you install a timing chain on one of these. I've got rollermaster kit with both gears and a chain and got the old gear off the crank but the new one is a tight fit. Do I just press it on with the harmonic balancer? Or is there a procedure for this.

[XF EDDIE 206]

Good news and bad news. Good news I got the essentials together and tried to start it and I got 50 psi of oil pressure, so that makes me hopeful about the condition of my pump and bearings. Bad news is that it won't start. I think I fucked up the timing of the dissy so some advice on the procedure would be appreciated, but all I got was popping out of the throat so I must have fucked something up (to install the distributor I lined up the crank with 10 degrees on the mark and put the distributor so the rotor faced cyl 1 when it was in). Any advice would be appreciated.

[deankxf 21,116]

15 minutes ago, XF EDDIE said:

Good news and bad news. Good news I got the essentials together and tried to start it and I got 50 psi of oil pressure, so that makes me hopeful about the condition of my pump and bearings. Bad news is that it won't start. I think I fucked up the timing of the dissy so some advice on the procedure would be appreciated, but all I got was popping out of the throat so I must have fucked something up (to install the distributor I lined up the crank with 10 degrees on the mark and put the distributor so the rotor faced cyl 1 when it was in). Any advice would be appreciated.

if you didn't find top dead center number 1 first (before lining up to 10deg mark) then it's most likely 180 degrees out. (the crank turns twice per the distributor rotor button once) 

 

so what you can do if you hate future self and just want to see it run (future self might forget you did this)  is put the number 1 lead from the spark plug on the number dizzy cap post , and do the firing order from there ..

153624.. 
so if my brain is correct(possibly too tired to brain it)
1 lead onto number 6 cap post

5 onto 2

3 onto 4

6 onto  1

2 onto 5

4 onto 3

try start it.. if it runs, then dissy is in back to front/180 degrees out.. (timed on number 6 TDC instead of number 1) 

to fix this, assuming it runs, rotate the engine till the mark lines up on the crank pulley again.. see where the dissy is pointing, if it's at the correct number one spot (where you now have placed number 6 lead) then rotate the crank one more revolution and it will be pointing opposite (where number 6 should be in the "correct" orientation)

then pull dizzy out, rotate it about 180 degrees (noting it twists as it goes in a bit) and then you can put the leads back on the correct posts. (future self will like this as some dizzy caps are numbered for your convenience) 

if it's not that. ..

then, it's likely timing related (choofing out the carby is usually either a bent pushrod etc or timing too far out.. most likely 180degrees out in this case in my opinion)

[SPArKy_Dave 9,342]

7 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

Good news and bad news. and put the distributor so the rotor faced cyl 1 when it was in

 

U mean the rotor is pointing at the 'Start' line on the dizzy spacer,

or physically at no.1 cyl?

 

Could also have it timed 180degrees out?

(do one more crank revolution, then point rotor at start line)

[XF EDDIE 206]

2 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

U mean the rotor is pointing at the 'Start' line on the dizzy spacer,

or physically at no.1 cyl?

 

Could also have it timed 180degrees out?

(do one more crank revolution, then point rotor at start line)

It doesn't have the start finish line so I just lined it up with cyl 1 using the notch that lines up the cap.

[XF EDDIE 206]

It's alive! And on fire. The dissy was 180 out just like you said and after that she fired up with 40 psi of oil pressure at 1500 rpm. It ran like shit though. I had a look with my timing gun and it was off the marks (I bridged the jumper before checking). The exhaust manifold and pipe were glowing bright orange so I shut it off and loosened the dissy hold down and fired it up again, giving the dissy a twist just tuning it by ear and an immediate improvement. Unfortunately the exhaust manifold caught fire due to the oil that had leaked on it. The temp gauge read normal so I'm hopeful that it didn't overheat but Im gonna let it cool before having another crack at it. Once it's cool I'll put some paint on that timing mark and time it properly, after that she's going on the road!

[XF EDDIE 206]

Well I'm having some problems. The timing is way retarded and I the dissy won't move far enough to correct it. I think I have the dissy housing clocked wrong so if anyone has a picture of how its supposed to go in that would be much appreciated 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,342]

1 hour ago, XF EDDIE said:

Well I'm...  way retarded and I the dissy won't move... how its supposed to go

 

Assuming it's an EST Distributor still,

the large 3 pin plug, usually points towards the front of the car, slightly towards the passenger side headlight.

 

Do u have a pic of your one?

 

 

[XF EDDIE 206]

7 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

Assuming it's an EST Distributor still,

the large 3 pin plug, usually points towards the front of the car, slightly towards the passenger side headlight.

 

Do u have a pic of your one?

 

 

Thats the ticket. I got it in and timed even with that tiny friggin timing mark and she runs so smooth. I'll drop a video here for you all

[XF EDDIE 206]

I brought it down to idle and it's running shitty again. I'm gonna pull the valve cover because it's hemorrhaging oil and I'll check to see it the pushrods are spinning. The break in for this cam went sub optimally to say the least with all the cranking stopping and starting I had to do so I'm hoping the worst hasn't happened.

[SPArKy_Dave 9,342]

Crossflow rocker cover gaskets, usually cost $10-15

Cheapest over-the-counter place I found for them, was Rarespares

 

As in it won't idle properly?

Do u still have that vacuum gauge?

[XF EDDIE 206]

16 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

Crossflow rocker cover gaskets, usually cost $10-15

Cheapest over-the-counter place I found for them, was Rarespares

 

As in it won't idle properly?

Do u still have that vacuum gauge?

Ill throw that on it now. Shoulda thought of that

[XF EDDIE 206]

 

Here's a video of it running with a gauge hooked up. Let me know what you think

[XF EDDIE 206]

Wrong video. I pulled some vac lines and it started running better but adjusting the carby did nothing 

 

[SPArKy_Dave 9,342]

Is that a proper vacuum gauge?... the scale appears to be in reverse.

I'd expect around 18inches of vacuum at idle or better.

 

This is my XF wagon, vacuum and oil pressure, around 2,000rpm

 

 

[XF EDDIE 206]

I pulled some lifters and yep she ate the cam. The break in went horribly with it being cranked alot and it running like shit due to timing so I'm not surprised. Anyone know where to get a new cam on cheap or alternatively a clevo/460?

[XF EDDIE 206]

Also how hard would it be to cram a 460 in one of these things? I found one on the cheap.

[Tazvan 121]

Don't, is the short answer...

[XF EDDIE 206]

11 minutes ago, Tazvan said:

Don't, is the short answer...

Why not, I've already got a good daily and it would be cool as hell

[Tazvan 121]

Many reasons not to, but if you want a real challenge, then go for it 

[deankxf 21,116]

1 hour ago, XF EDDIE said:

Also how hard would it be to cram a 460 in one of these things? I found one on the cheap.

they fit XD XE, so XF wouldn't be far off. , there's probably a CRS engine mount kit. 

i would assume it might need custom extractors , Ihave seen them listed in the past for XD XE so XF likely same .. 

they are a big heavy lump designed for a truck, may not even go as well as a 302 windsor in stock form which i'd much prefer in an XF if keeping it ford engined. 

edit.. if you've driven a clevo XE after driving it as a crossflow, you'll know the handling difference wouldn't be worth adding even more weight to one. 

 

[XF EDDIE 206]

44 minutes ago, deankxf said:

they fit XD XE, so XF wouldn't be far off. , there's probably a CRS engine mount kit. 

i would assume it might need custom extractors , Ihave seen them listed in the past for XD XE so XF likely same .. 

they are a big heavy lump designed for a truck, may not even go as well as a 302 windsor in stock form which i'd much prefer in an XF if keeping it ford engined. 

edit.. if you've driven a clevo XE after driving it as a crossflow, you'll know the handling difference wouldn't be worth adding even more weight to one. 

 

I didn't consider weight in the equation. If I can get a cam for under $300 I'll just do that as I've already got a new timing chain and balancer on this engine. If you know anyone that I could get one off of that would be good. Alternatively a good set of used lifters would work as well as I already have a used stock cam for this XF and honestly I don't really care about doing this properly anymore. As long as it works I'm gonna be happy

[SPArKy_Dave 9,342]

7 hours ago, XF EDDIE said:

I pulled some lifters and yep she ate the cam. The break in went horribly

 

Again?

Was it a new or sec/hand cam?

New or original or sec/hand lifters?

 

Most unusual... I can't say I've ever had that happen!

@deankxf

 

It really shouldn't have done that so quickly, let alone at all.

Did u check the pushrods and lifters were all spinning?

 

460's are for F-truck's IMO... nice open engine bay, and plenty of room for spark plug access.

If u were to do a V8, I'd only recommend a 302 Windsor tbh.

No issues with heater hoses at the firewall, and the lightest V8 from that era.

 

[deankxf 21,116]

11 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

Most unusual... I can't say I've ever had that happen! (wiped out cam)

@deankxf

 

It really shouldn't have done that so quickly, let alone at all.

I've been told by many places over the years, just how easy it is to wipe out a cam on run in. 

I've run in 2 in my lifetime, and i'd say it's probably the most stressful due to reasons above.  my clevo had bad valve lash due to  different heads to the block originally, different inlet  manifold to what the heads came off (black 302 block, early 351 heads, manifold off the black 302, rockers etc the 302 black heads) and i didn't know how to set the lash, just did the rocker bolts up and sent it.. it ran crap so i sent it off to be dyno tuned and fixed and he was surprised the cam didn't get wiped out for it. (needed shims on some rocker posts, and ground down some other rocker posts apparently. and also the metal intake gasket i fitted was binned for felpro ones with silastic on the front and rear.. fine for 80,000kms i had it) 

 

the other was a blue 202 in my commodore after reco, issue with that was i cranked it for ages without oil pressure because the oil pump needed to be grease packed first (lucky accessible/removable externally) all ran smoothly but the engine got HOT,  (60 thou overbore, probably a warm day and revved at 2000rpm for 20mins)  that was mint for 80,000kms also (99% of the time on LPG)

some engines with super heavy valve springs are cam run in with lighter single springs to reduce the risk on cam run in.. 

 

its' fairly common unfortunately. 

some say to lather in the assembly lube into the cam for 20minutes before fitting it. so it "soaks in" (can't see it, but what would i know) soaking the lifters in oil might also be part of the reason it's done(soaks into the metal?, no idea) 

[XF EDDIE 206]

10 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

Again?

Was it a new or sec/hand cam?

New or original or sec/hand lifters?

 

Most unusual... I can't say I've ever had that happen!

@deankxf

 

It really shouldn't have done that so quickly, let alone at all.

Did u check the pushrods and lifters were all spinning?

 

460's are for F-truck's IMO... nice open engine bay, and plenty of room for spark plug access.

If u were to do a V8, I'd only recommend a 302 Windsor tbh.

No issues with heater hoses at the firewall, and the lightest V8 from that era.

 

Yeah 3 pushrods weren't spinning so I pulled the associated lifters. It was hard to see but when it was up against the light there was a stripe running right through it. It also was a new cam but I don't know what brand it was (it just came in a white box) so quality might have been an issue. With all the cranking I'm pretty sure all the assembly lube was washed off before it got good oil pressure st that probably did it in. Also how good does a 460 go in an f100? I got one with a crossflow in it and a t18 and it's always been a bit of a dog. If I can find a good panel beater in my area to fix the accident damage then that might be a fun project