Starter Motor

[Rayinsydney 21]

hello, 

my XE 3.3 has decided its a no go zone, wont start, so I'm working through what it could be, eaither battery or starter or voodoo.

 

when i turn the key it just clunks, dash lights go out, if i give the starter a few  whacks , it'll turn slowly but not fire.

 

if i hook a jump pack to the battery, post whack, it'll turn over totally fine, but not start, battery reads 12.5v, so low reading, its currently on charge and seems likely to need a new one regardless.

 

prior to this, its been running fine with no issues always starts perfect, other than every now and then it wont turn over on start, but if I'd jam the column shift hard up into park, it would fire up, so do i also look at inhibitor switch?

 

Also, if its the starter, is it just the terminals and two bolts to get it out or more sorcery?.

 

I'm a mechanical numpty so please use simple words

 

thanks in advance, 

 

Ray.

[deankxf 20,292]

1 hour ago, Rayinsydney said:

Also, if its the starter, is it just the terminals and two bolts to get it out or more sorcery?.

 

I'm a mechanical numpty so please use simple words

 

starter on an XF is probably the easiest car in the world to remove, 2 mounting bolts, fat cable from the battery and the trigger wire 

 

if it works when you tap on it, then it's the common "cheaper to replace" but fixable issue the later starter motors work. gear reduction type. personally if there's a local auto electrician that rebuilds them i'd have it rebuilt, in My opinion they last heaps longer than the newer ones (new ones are lighter with gear reduction offering more power and lighter/smaller package)

if you have to hold it in park to start it, this is adjustable from memory (try it in neutral first) could just be worn shifter bushes etc making the adjustment out. 

 

@SPArKy_Dave might make it simpler to understand

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

12 hours ago, Rayinsydney said:

hello,

I'm a mechanical numpty so please use simple words

thanks in advance,

Ray.

 

I'd suggest to buy a new battery.

That's the easiest.

[deankxf 20,292]

7 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

I'd suggest to buy a new battery.

That's the easiest.

it's still going to have the clicky click issue with a new battery most likely, arcing/tarnish on the solenoid contacts internally

[Rayinsydney 21]

cheers for the suggestions, a new battery has gone in, car cranks over fine now, but that's all it does, crank.

 

Its got spark to the cylinders, but now seems not to be getting fuel, so that's my next mystery.

[bear351c 10,270]

Hi mate, is it carby or EFI.?   

Carby might be blocked filter, EFI might be ignition module, fuel pump relay, or the pump itself (in the tank)

 

 

[Rayinsydney 21]

4 minutes ago, bear351c said:

Hi mate, is it carby or EFI.?   

Carby might be blocked filter, EFI might be ignition module, fuel pump relay, or the pump itself (in the tank)

 

 

its Carb, there's fuel in the filter, I'll pull off the fuel hose into the carb and see if its pumping through i guess.

[bear351c 10,270]

Yeah, OK.  Then maybe try Brakecleen or Aerostart down the carby, and see if it fires. If it runs on Ether, it must be the fuel system.

 

[deankxf 20,292]

4 hours ago, Rayinsydney said:

its Carb, there's fuel in the filter, I'll pull off the fuel hose into the carb and see if its pumping through i guess.

if it fires with a spray of something in the carby top(even WD would do it etc) then it's fuel supply issue. 

can be many causes, check the fuel hoses don't have cracks in them, sucking air instead of fuel is something i've seen a few times on XD to XFs and that was 15yrs ago. 

 

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

8 hours ago, Rayinsydney said:

cheers for the suggestions, a new battery has gone in, car cranks over fine now, but that's all it does, crank.

 

Its got spark to the cylinders, but now seems not to be getting fuel, so that's my next mystery.

 

I'd suggest to start by putting a 20ltr Jerry can of fuel, in the tank.

It may just be low on fuel.

 

Residual fuel can, still sit in the fuel filter bowl.

[Rayinsydney 21]

11 hours ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

I'd suggest to start by putting a 20ltr Jerry can of fuel, in the tank.

It may just be low on fuel.

 

Residual fuel can, still sit in the fuel filter bowl.

cheers,  its got 3/4 of a tank,

I put a small amount of petrol into the carb and it wouldn't fire, just cranks, I may just get a mobile mech up to help diagnose it

[deankxf 20,292]

21 hours ago, Rayinsydney said:

Its got spark to the cylinders

 

1 hour ago, Rayinsydney said:

I put a small amount of petrol into the carb and it wouldn't fire, just cranks, I may just get a mobile mech up to help diagnose it

 

if it has spark, it really should fire unless it's fouled plugs or flooded (too much fuel)
before you call a mobile mechanic(guessing $200 min charge? min)
you could remove the spark plugs and take a look, if they are wet (flooded) leave them removed for a few hours if possible, fuel will evaporate

or black/rust, try wire brushing them, and refitting (wire brush them if wet from too much fuel also)

if you've been cranking it and cranking it, it's likely flooded, especially if pumping the accelerator pedal

[Rayinsydney 21]

14 minutes ago, deankxf said:

 

 

if it has spark, it really should fire unless it's fouled plugs or flooded (too much fuel)
before you call a mobile mechanic(guessing $200 min charge? min)
you could remove the spark plugs and take a look, if they are wet (flooded) leave them removed for a few hours if possible, fuel will evaporate

or black/rust, try wire brushing them, and refitting (wire brush them if wet from too much fuel also)

if you've been cranking it and cranking it, it's likely flooded, especially if pumping the accelerator pedal

Good shout that, I'll give that a go as next step, 

cheers, 

Ray

[SPArKy_Dave 8,881]

6 hours ago, deankxf said:

if it has spark,

 

and the correct timing.

 

Although less likely, I would consider the ignition module, and/or distributor pickup coil.

(assuming factory XE distributor)

[deankxf 20,292]

54 minutes ago, SPArKy_Dave said:

 

and the correct timing.

 

Although less likely, I would consider the ignition module, and/or distributor pickup coil.

(assuming factory XE distributor)

it was running, then wasn't so i can't see the timing being out(unless messed with)

if it has spark, it should just work 

[Rayinsydney 21]

so,  its still no go, so my mechanic is going to come up one night and have a look ( he's done  a heap of work on this car so knows it well ) , its a mystery but I'll let you all know the results.

 

Fingers crossed, and thanks for your suggestions.

[deankxf 20,292]

3 hours ago, Rayinsydney said:

so,  its still no go, so my mechanic is going to come up one night and have a look ( he's done  a heap of work on this car so knows it well ) , its a mystery but I'll let you all know the results.

 

Fingers crossed, and thanks for your suggestions.

We are always interested in what the solution was, it can help the next person. 

even more so if you can remember his diagnosis procedure. 

eg, 
has good battery, engine cranks fast enough, checked for strong spark at plugs, how he'd check for flooded or no fuel. and so on. 

once you know, it applies to lots of things. why the whipper snipper won't start after 6 months with stale fuel in the shed (drain the fuel, put fresh fuel and run it mid/off season, same for anything 2 stroke particularly )

 

[Rayinsydney 21]

Quick update, the car has been sat outside for a couple of weeks now as my mechanic hasn't had a chance to come look,  just for fun yesterday i tried to start it, and it started!

 

Ran really roughly, the motor was rocking all over the place and blue smoke was pouring out the tail pipe, i shut it off, checked the oil level and it was way over full, and smelling of petrol , so I drained it, and the oil was just so full of petrol it almost had the viscosity of petrol itself.

I put new oil in and a new filter, the car then started and ran just as it always has, took it for a run and all went well, so somethings amiss, but at least it can drive now so i can get it to the mechanic.

Will let you know what happens , eventually

[deankxf 20,292]

55 minutes ago, Rayinsydney said:

Quick update, the car has been sat outside for a couple of weeks now as my mechanic hasn't had a chance to come look,  just for fun yesterday i tried to start it, and it started!

 

Ran really roughly, the motor was rocking all over the place and blue smoke was pouring out the tail pipe, i shut it off, checked the oil level and it was way over full, and smelling of petrol , so I drained it, and the oil was just so full of petrol it almost had the viscosity of petrol itself.

I put new oil in and a new filter, the car then started and ran just as it always has, took it for a run and all went well, so somethings amiss, but at least it can drive now so i can get it to the mechanic.

Will let you know what happens , eventually

this to Me points to fuel pump leaking fuel into the oil (fairly common back in the day) 
 

could try change the fuel pump next. 

 

if the petrol is getting in the oil, it can evaporate and go into the carby (too rich) as vapour and make the engine run rough (with air cleaner lid fitted) 

(if it runs better with the lid removed, this could be a good diagnoses of fuel in oil causing the running rough, other than fouled plugs )

remove plugs, wire brush and refit, run with the air cleaner lid removed.. if it runs good, change the fuel pump ASAP 

some small amount of fuel in the oil(from today's run) will clear up on it's on, but if there's lots, you would be advised to change the oil again to minimise risk of bearing damage from compromised oil. 

[Rayinsydney 21]

1 hour ago, deankxf said:

this to Me points to fuel pump leaking fuel into the oil (fairly common back in the day) 
 

could try change the fuel pump next. 

 

if the petrol is getting in the oil, it can evaporate and go into the carby (too rich) as vapour and make the engine run rough (with air cleaner lid fitted) 

(if it runs better with the lid removed, this could be a good diagnoses of fuel in oil causing the running rough, other than fouled plugs )

remove plugs, wire brush and refit, run with the air cleaner lid removed.. if it runs good, change the fuel pump ASAP 

some small amount of fuel in the oil(from today's run) will clear up on it's on, but if there's lots, you would be advised to change the oil again to minimise risk of bearing damage from compromised oil. 

cheers, I'll check the plugs etc and report back, 

[Rayinsydney 21]

hello, 

 

Final update on this thread,  I picked the car up yesterday, all is good and runs like a dream.

the mechanic checked all systems, fuel , ignition etc and pulled the re-built carb apart again and went though that, put it back together and it runs perfectly, all that he assumes is somewhere along the way when he did the work earlier in the year, he stuffed something up and it led to the issues listed above, so he put his hand up at least and didn't charge a thing, even topped up the aircon at the same time. 

So while it has'nt answered why the car played up , why it had petrol in the oil etc, it has for now been fixed and will get a good run tomorrow.

 

in saying that, cheers for all the pointers, I know what to check out next time in case it gets grumpy again, for now, i'll drive it

[deankxf 20,292]

2 hours ago, Rayinsydney said:

hello, 

 

Final update on this thread,  I picked the car up yesterday, all is good and runs like a dream.

the mechanic checked all systems, fuel , ignition etc and pulled the re-built carb apart again and went though that, put it back together and it runs perfectly, all that he assumes is somewhere along the way when he did the work earlier in the year, he stuffed something up and it led to the issues listed above, so he put his hand up at least and didn't charge a thing, even topped up the aircon at the same time. 

So while it has'nt answered why the car played up , why it had petrol in the oil etc, it has for now been fixed and will get a good run tomorrow.

 

in saying that, cheers for all the pointers, I know what to check out next time in case it gets grumpy again, for now, i'll drive it

did he change the fuel pump?

if not, that's the only way fuel can get in the oil as far as i know . 

check your oil level OFTEN if the fuel pump wasn't changed.