Panko

10 hours ago, deankdx said:

they are a weird looking piston.. 

 

number 2 looked dirty from DIRT

it probably was. 
they were all oily too. Because when i was working on the bottom end i had the block upside down, so there was oil and dirt running out the oil and water jackets. 
 

Yeah the heads on these are flat, so the pistons have chambers in them instead of the head. And they are an interference head, so if something goes wrong, it smashes a piston 

i also cleaned up the tops of the pistons today

before

After

The pistons are also .060” oversized. 
Im not 100% sure, but doing some reading on building these Engines, that means the capacity is approximately now 1660cc. 
 

.090” over Brings them up to 1700cc 

Ok i attacked the thermostat area with a hand file today. 
 

I didn’t go right down to get rid of all the pitting but its better. It also have a bit more surface for the thermostat housing to pull down to. 
The new thermostat housing is a little different to the ones ive run in the past, in that the housing itself is smaller than the thermostat, so it actually pulls down on the outer ring of the thermostat itself, which makes sense to me, as it should help give a better seal and make sure the thermostat stays put in its spot. 
 

i think with the new gasket and some gasket goo it will seal ok. 

i might sit down and carefully clean it up. but otherwise it should be ok 

Just now, deankdx said:

surprised it wasn't suggested to surface grind that thermostat area.. be needing some silastic on that one by the looks

 

yeah unfortunately they all do it there. 

its rare to find a good one. 

Usually can get them to seal with silastic. 

I picked up the head from the engine builder finally. 

It just needs a coat of paint, and it can go on. 

New valves, and steam seals. 
 

ok guys who have been playing along. this is the conclusion ive come to. 

Well guys, after 3 days straight trying different things, i still couldn't get the car to run right. I still dont get what went wrong, what started all this and caused these problems, when I had it running fine until June. 

Anyway, i know it was directly related to the ISC valve, and today in trying every possible solution, I tried plugging in the original XF unit. which generally speaking it should not work, and doesn't work properly with EL injection. 

Well, the original XF unit, is by far giving the best result. So i have plugged it back in, and put the original pipes back in, and took it for a drive, it seems happy. Granted, it was tested at full running temperature. So tomorrow morning, when its bone cold, I will fire it up and see how it goes on cold start with the XF ISC valve. 

It isn't 100% with the XF ISC, but its definitely bearable. 
What it's doing is, it holds the idle at around 900-1000rpm for a couple seconds before settling down to normal idle. but it is consistent. it drives really well, fine changing gears etc. but the idle hold before resting is something i guess ill just get used to. 

I still intend to get my brother to CNC cut a solid billet alloy block to mount the E series ISC to, and test it again with a much better built mounting block, and go from there. but at this stage, the XF unit with EL injection seems ot be the best result. 

Well guys, after 3 days straight trying different things, i still couldn't get the car to run right. I still dont get what went wrong, what started all this and caused these problems, when I had it running fine until June. 

Anyway, i know it was directly related to the ISC valve, and today in trying every possible solution, I tried plugging in the original XF unit. which generally speaking it should not work, and doesn't work properly with EL injection. 

Well, the original XF unit, is by far giving the best result. So i have plugged it back in, and put the original pipes back in, and took it for a drive, it seems happy. Granted, it was tested at full running temperature. So tomorrow morning, when its bone cold, I will fire it up and see how it goes on cold start with the XF ISC valve. 

It isn't 100% with the XF ISC, but its definitely bearable. 
What it's doing is, it holds the idle at around 900-1000rpm for a couple seconds before settling down to normal idle. but it is consistent. it drives really well, fine changing gears etc. but the idle hold before resting is something i guess ill just get used to. 

I still intend to get my brother to CNC cut a solid billet alloy block to mount the E series ISC to, and test it again with a much better built mounting block, and go from there. but at this stage, the XF unit with EL injection seems ot be the best result. 

5 minutes ago, deankdx said:

wow they are amazing! 

 

 

Yeah he does awesome work. 

I am considering asking him if he is willing to do XF/ZL/FE door switches when I see him next. 

I still have 1 more to give him, because for some reason i left it in the car. its the dash light dimmer wheel/switch. so ill have to get him to that at a later date. 

just a small detail, but a bit of joy in this shitty lockdown, 

My switches for the Escort have been restored by a fellow RSOCV club member. this will just finish the interior off. 

Finally had some luck with this. But still not out of the water.

I have found 1 last vacuum leak, which i believe is causing me grief. its self inflicted but i think i have managed to repair it. It was the mating face between the ISC and the adapter plate I made wasn't getting a good seal and I was able to blow air through it with my mouth. 
I have since fixed that, and will try tomorrow. Fingers crossed it has solved the issue. 

Thanks for all the help guys. 

7 hours ago, gerg said:

I think he means EL onward, which use the throttle-mounted ISC valves. If you wanted to use the later valve on the early remote setup, you'll need an adaptor plate with hoses coming in and out

Sent from my CPH1920 using Tapatalk
 

yeah thats how ive done is thus far. 
and in theory it should work. 
 

EB/ED and EF/EL are all mounted to TB bu I believe work opposite directions

8 minutes ago, Lord_fahrquhar said:

Okay, eb and ef on are wired differently (reverse polarity)

 

Ef works by using vacuum to hold open the unit and power to restrict the idle back down.  ED and earlier use power to open up

 

ok ok that helps a lot. 

Im running EL, is it also wired backwards? 

If so, that explains a lot. 

So id be better running the EB/ED unit? 

23 hours ago, Outback Jack said:

I would go back to the EB one , you seemed to have more success with that.
I now run EL/XH ecu with ED/XG ISC no probs.
Setting the idle exactly in the order I listed is the only way to get it to play ball.
That's for a manual around 700-800rpm at idle.
Start car, disconnect ISC while running.
RPM should drop to 500-600rpm.
If too low and stalls turn idle up 1/2 turn and try again.
It can be a bit of a s*** but once you get it in the sweet spot, you should get an 800-900rpm cold idle , 700-750/800rpm warm idle.
Hope that helps.


Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk
 

A little bit of progress forward.... i think. 

I did a bench test across 12v to compare the EB and EL ISC. the EB unit moves a lot more than the EL unit does when a quick 12v supply is given to it, just to be sure they move. 

if holding the valves in the same orientation, they also move opposite directions. 

I have gone back to running the EB ISC, because as Jack said, I seemed to have more success with that. 

Immediately it was better on cold start with the EB ISC, but when I took it for a drive, I immediately noticed i had rev hand again. Pulled over once it was at temp to check it, and wouldn't ya know it, i could hear another vacuum leak. 

This time it was the hose clamp around the pip from ISC to plenum that had failed, allowing it suck air in from around the hose end  

I don't have any suitable spare hose clamps, so that is where I left it for now. I feel im getting very close to having it back to right, or at least drivable, but I just keep having these little issues. 

If I sort out all the annoying vacuum leaks that keep rearing their ugly heads, and I still can't get the car running happy, I will return it back to stock, which I know was super reliable. 

Ok interesting test this morning. 
 

fired the car up, and it was idling very low, like under 500rpm with the ISC valve still connected. 
i had to hold the throttle to keep it alive. Once it was able to idle on its own, i turned the idle up to keep it alive. At this stage obviously ive thrown the tuning way out. 
 

took it for a drive, as it warmed up idle was sitting up around 1100rpm. So as i got it up to temp, i pulled up to adjust the idle, it started running super rough and losing power. Wouldn’t rev up etc. i managed to limp it into the carpark then it conked out on me. This has happened a few times now. 
The issue now is that the car wont start. It will crank, and i can smell fuel so the injectors are working, but won’t fire. After about 10 minutes it fired up again, but obviously very flooded, because it runs like a bag of bolts and blows lots of black smoke until it clears. In this time it wont idle on its own. 
So maybe i have another underlying issue, being the ignition system. 
 

Once the car is running again, it feels fine. Drives well. So i get home, leave it idling to try adjust the base idle. Disconnect the ISC and the idle does not change. 
its like the ISC valve is just not functioning. Weird. 
 

I doubt i got a brand new faulty out of the box ISC valve, so is anyone able to confirm which hole is before the butterfly and which is after, for an EL ISC valve? 
 

Thanks to Jack for confirming the orientation of the EB unit. 
Id just like to know I have the EL unit hooked up correctly before bailing and going back to the EB unit.  

48 minutes ago, Outback Jack said:

EB/ED wiring-solenoid is facing motor, the large end towards the fender.

So holding solenoid up, holes away from you. Left is the outside of throttle plate (free air but filtered), right is inside the throttle plate.( used as air bypass to manifold at idle).

 

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Does that apply for an EL unit as well? 
 

Im hoping its just a matter of getting the base idle right, at this stage im thinking it needs to go up quite a bit. 
 

interesting point there about the air bypass. 
 

the XF throttle body has an air bypass in it, which is how the idle speed is set. 
im wondering if it is causing issues? 
bah maybe im thinking too much into it. 
 

i believe ili had it setup with a vacuum leak I didn’t know i had, which is most likely why i could never get the idle 100% right. 
 

now the vac leak seems to be fixed, perhaps the base idle is miles too low. Vac leak means higher idle. 

6 minutes ago, Mr Polson said:

The coolant temp sensor in the brass fitting off the side of the head is where the ECU gets its coolant temp from, and adjusts idle speed based on that. I don't think it's as simple as fast idle on or off, fast idle should slowly come down as temp goes up.

E series have that switch in the thermostat housing, and from memory it's the same part number.

correct. 
You have reinforced my thoughts that it should adjust as coolant temp raises. 
 

I am absolutely losing my mind trying to figure out whats wrong. 
 

I tried piping the ISC valve the opposite way, it held revs. Same if i flipped the polarity in the wiring. 
the way i have it seems to be the only way it works, but now it wont start essentially because its holding the rpm too low, as if the ISC is doing nothing. 
 

Im getting a bit over it  

i miss the car being turn key and drive. I seem to spend more time working on it now trying to make it run, than i do actually driving it. 
 

maybe the brand new EL ISC valve isn’t suitable. 
maybe i have to go back to running an EB unit. They are different style, maybe thats the issue. 
 

for all intents and purposes this is generally an easy conversion, but the cold start side of it just seems to be way more complex than it needs to be. I have no idea why

10 minutes ago, deankdx said:

i know you are trying to do it with factory stuff. but what's stopping you from having a solenoid on a vacuum line with carby jet or something letting a bit of air in and plumbed into the air intake post filter/pre throttle body. triggered by a temp switch(Davies Craig or on off type if you know what it's meant to be) 

 

i think because these systems are so sensitive to vacuum etc, it may upset it. 
 

essentially the coolant temp sensor is that switch. 
but something related to the cold start function isn’t getting the right message? 

@LJDB

Hey mate, 

i seem to be having more issues than anyone else with this conversion  

Ive had mixed issues with it and mixed results. I had it perfect for a bit, but now got issues again. 
 

when you did this conversion what did you do for the ISC valve? Ive remote mounted an E series unit and made an adapter plate and piped it back to the engine. 
 

i just replaced the EB unit i was running with an EL unit, fixed a vacuum leak, and now I can’t seem to get the cold start happy. 
 

bonus if anyone can tell me which side of the EL ISC goes to which side of the TB, that would be ace.

EB and EL are reverse i think, so i need to be sure ive not got it piped backwards

On 7/15/2021 at 10:01 AM, Outback Jack said:

Try redoing the idle setting.

Run the car until warm, unplug the ISC and set the RPM to 550-650rpm.

Don't rev it or anything while doing this.

Then plug the ISC back in and it should idle around 700-750rpm.

 

It's the T.I. j3 that causes the rev hang.

When you back off the accelerator usually in the ecu is a bit of retard that is added as you decelerate.

Their advice is always it's the ISC. What a crock. More like sloppy tuning.

 

I found it also using an MSD with a curve and no ecu input, the rev hang was a bit stupid. So now I let the ECU control timing, no more problem.

 

I'm running a stock XH ecu with very little rev hang now.

 

There will be a way to add the retard in deceleration on the j3 but I don't know where.

Sorry mate.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my S21 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

thanks jack. 
since i posted this. I found a vacuum hose had popped off the intake. That made a big difference fixing that. 
 

rev hang gone, fuel pressure back to normal. 
 

i then drove it to my partner’s house, and it seemed fine. Drove really nicely. It sat for 4 hours before I left to come home. Again it seemed to be ok. Fired up and ran fine. 
 

today, after sitting for a week. I went to start it, and it wouldn’t idle. Too low, almost like the ISC wasn’t doing anything. 
 

i managed to get it to idle by turning the air bypass screw (idle adjustment on XF TB) out, which increases idle speed. Obviously doing this when its cold goes against how I am meant to set idle. 
 

Once it started warming up, of course the idle was high, about 1000-1100rpm. It stayed up for a bit, my temp gauge on the dash showing normal temp, so figured id pull over and turn the idle down to try set it the correct way. As i pulled over it seemed to settle to normal. 
 

Do they generally have a “cold start temp” in which at a set coolant temp (different sensor to dash) they come off cold start, hence dropping the idle down, almost like a switch? 
 

if so, it means all the stuffing about i did initially was before it had come off cold start. 
so tomorrow ill have to try it again when its dead cold. 

Hi guys, 

anyone who follows along with my build thread would know that Ive converted the XF to run a J3 chipper EL ECU. 

Since the beginning ive had issues with the ISC valve, which I thought I had sorted. It has recently started giving me issues again, and have fitted a brand new EL ISC valve, which I have mounted remotely and piped back to the engine like the original XF one. 

Even with the new ISC, im still having issues. 

at first i had it piped the wrong way i think, so turned it around. but now, I have major rev hang. it is the one and only thing that is making this conversion s***.

So the ones who have done it, how did you setup the ISC circuit? 

9 minutes ago, Jdean said:

The upper arm already has a big curve for clearance. Looking at the picture of the xh, I'd say there are some differences in the chassis? I'll add a photo of how much clearance I had to the chassis rail with a level drive shaft. Close to level anyway..

Yeah there must be come differences. what a pity

Boy that is close. 

2 minutes ago, Jdean said:

I think it could be done with custom struts. There would either be very little suspension travel or an extreme angle on the strut though. The upper control arm also comes quite close to the chassis rail.

Yeh i just came to the same conclusion running my brain over it all. 

i wonder if there were custom arms that have a curve in them to go under the chassis rail. maybe air bag suspension instead of coils

Im super keen to watch the progress. 

thats bonkers. 

Your conversion looks a little more extreme compared to my photo of the conversion i posted early on in this thread. 

I have 1 main question for you...

Is there a way to run the springs without tubbing and building turrets? 

Ever since i found the pic that i posted previously, years ago, i have thought how much id love to do this to my XF Ghia wagon. 

Id love to see more underside pics 

4 minutes ago, gerg said:

Looks rifle-bolt precise.. that will be sweet to use now

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I just hope its a bit smoother and quieter when I grease it haha. Its currently dry. 

These shifters are renown for being rattly when not under load, as in cruising in gear. Someone from the car club said to fit it, use an old steering rack boot, cut it down, it fits perfect over the stick, and cable tie both ends. 
You can see at the bottom of the shifter housing there is a recess for a cable tie. just needs the boot.